Let me preface this by saying I'm an adult with adhd who specifically works with kids who have adhd.
First of all, a car isn't a small thing. This has severely limited Casey's mobility. She worked hard to be able to drive a car she wanted and be mobile.
Alana's adhd is no excuse in this situation, if I'm honest. If the adhd was why she crashed the car, she shouldn't be driving yet. But no one in thr real word will take adhd as an excuse for not paying rent or what is owed. You don't get disability benefits for it. And for a many adhders, work is easier than school. Schools are uniquely horrible environments for adhders since the learning is not set up for an interest based nervous system and lecturing isn't a good way for us to learn. Nor is being forced to sit still.
If they were adults, Casey could just report her for destruction of property and get the money for the car that way. Alana's adhd would not be seen as a mitigating circumstance, but might end up with her licence revoked. Even as a minor, she could still technically do that. Though she'd be taking you to court, not Alana, since Alana is also a minor you're legally responsible for.
Casey didn’t accept our apology, and has been basically avoiding us, skipping family dinners, and pretty much pretending that her mom, Alana, and I don’t exist and only talks to us if she needs a form signed for her school.
What were you expecting? From Casey's perspective Alana destroyed her property and got off scottfree. From Casey's perspective not only is it unfair, it's unjust as well. Especially if you as the parents were why she "allowed" Alana to drive the car in the first place.
Most siblings wouldn't want to share something they worked that hard for with a sibling. Let alone one with adhd. It makes us hard on property, as much as I wish it didn't. I don't borrow things from other people for this reason. The impulsivity and hyperactivity aren't conducive to returning things in the same state you were given them in. And from the language youve used, I'd be willing to bet that "allowing" Alana to drive her car wasn't entirely volontary on Casey's part. And if it wasn't, then Casey holds you responsible, as she should.
From Casey's perspective you're using Alana's adhd as an excuse to let her get away with poor behaviour. And doing both Casey and Alana a disservice in the process. The real world won't care about Alana's adhd if she's financially or legally responsible for something. And you're teaching Casey that she's secondary to Alana. Look up glass children if you haven't come across the term before.
The issue is that Alana has severe ADHD, and already has trouble managing her school work. I’m worried that making her work to earn the money will harm her grades and have significant ramifications for her future.
So would a court case for an adult who destroyed someone's property. Alana isn't an adult, but you as her parents are the legally respsibile for the damages she incurs. Even if it's against her sibling. You seem to be forgetting that destruction of property is still a crime, even if accidental, if the person refuses to pay the damages.
My wife agrees with me that we need to stand firm on our position, but is also genuinely afraid of Casey never speaking to her ever again. I understand that her car was ruined, but I as a parent I need to look out for all my children, not just one
Yes, you do. And you're not looking out for Casey here. At all.
She's got a year left and then she can go be NC with you. She just might
Yeah I agree. I’m adhd. It doesn’t sound like they’re treating her adhd properly. It doesn’t sound like they are setting Alana up for success by catering to her constantly. And it sounds like they’re sacrificing their other daughter for no gain.
Both kids deserve better. Alana needs consequences. And treatment. And no fucking car.
Casey needs a car and to get as far away from her parents as possible.
Alana needs to work. First to pay off the car she destroyed. Second, to buy her own car. There is no way she understands how much effort it takes, and by the looks of things probably doesn't value anything.
Consequences are vital. The therapist should be sympathetic to Casey. Yes her demands are big, but her sister destroyed her car so she gets a break. She has every right to be upset and compared to me and what I would do in this situation, I think op should consider themselves lucky parents to have a daughter as amazing as Casey.
RIGHT!!! I run a business that employs kids from 18-20 something (college age in a college town). Do you know how hard it is to find kids that want and like to work? Casey is a shining star as far as I’m concerned, and work ethic is something my parents instilled in me. They should be proud of her. Although from the sound of it, work ethic isn’t something the parents know anything about.
Then her parents made her loan out her car then act like she’s out of line to expect to be made whole.
I seriously doubt Casey spontaneously allowed her new driver sister to borrow her hard earned car. My parents made me let my brother borrow my car for a week while I was out of town, and my car never drove the same again. My brother thought it was hilarious that he damaged my car and got away with it.
Literally. My mom bought me a 2008 avenger in 2010 and I was the biggest piece of shit teenager. I felt so bad for ruining it. My dad died so she bought it cuz she felt bad for me.
I’m sorry for your loss of your father. I’m a mom and probably would have done the same.
And it’s ok you were working out a lot of big feelings at a time in your development that shouldn’t have happened. Go hug your mama more and thank her for me. ❤️
Alana is 16. Casey is 17 and saved a year to pay for her car. So Alana can work a year to pay Casey back since she IS the same age as Casey was when going to work, and no, adhd is not an excuse not to work.
OP is YTA. And I bet the reason Casey even allowed Alana to drive her car. She was bullied into it by her parents. No way would I have let a 16 yo drive my car.
Bingo! Every OP writes their story out for them in the best light possible. Wonder how it ACTUALLY went down! Cause I'm sure this is a skewed and misrepresented way of how things actually happened. I'm interested in hearing the other side of this. Cause this pitty party is not working!
Yeah either they went behind her back or "convinced" her to let Alana drive. Now no one really wants to own up to their mistake and the one crashing the car is being excused.
Casey worked a year to get that car. I don't think she just let her sister drive.
That is a more real world consequence. The work she does doesn't have to be laborious or many hours. It could also be the parents pay out with a loan, and Alana could do community service hours. That would also look great on a college resume
As a teen, I wouldn’t have been able to handle working after school or multiple times per week but I sure could work one day a weekend. It would just take longer to pay someone back. I only got my adhd diagnosis in my 20’s
Debt is debt. If she borrowed the car, she has to be willing to accept the risk. And that risk is transferred to the parents just like if they brought a kid to a store where everything is breakable and the kid accidentally breaks something.
Working while going to school is hard, but not impossible.
And OP isn’t even prepared to try and see if Alana is capable of working. He’s just saying it might be too much for her so he won’t even put it to the test. Zero attempt at accountability and restitution. Oh, they’re all very apologetic but not actually even a little bit prepared to genuinely try to create a solution that restores what Casey lost. No wonder Casey is furious. Their response is basically “Oops, soz, guess you’ll have to wait a whole year to get your car back. Sucks to be you.”
The mum is right to be worried that Casey will never speak to her again. At her age, independence is right around the corner.
Not only that, but using her ADHD as an excuse rather than getting her an earlier start on adjusting to work and finding out what sort of adjustments she needs to make a handle it is doing the huge disservice to this girl.
There are a lot of things that can come along with ADHD and family one of those is employment difficulties but unless the parents plan on some sort of trust that will support this girl forever, they need to find a way to set her up for adulthood and supporting herself and learning responsibility and the cost of things, along with the amount of work it actually takes to earn them, is part of that.
There are a lot of women with ADHD who end up in shitty positions because they find the first man that will support and enable them the way their parents did when they can't figure out how to hold down full-time employment, and so often those relationships are abusive and manipulative. Even the ones that aren't come with the inherent imbalance of power because of the financial differences and likely huge differences in executive functioning skill she doesn't start developing hers now.
The lump sided way they are handling this seems like a good way to end up with both daughters going low or no contact as adults and resenting both their sister and their parents.
Lady, I hope you read this & took out a loan for your daughter to get a new car & put the loan in your name so you can directly hold it over your other daughter’s head.
Leave your other daughter out of it, it’s between you & your car crashing younger daughter now.
You assume the role of the victim now, by taking on the debt yourself & making your daughter have the debt with you.
But Alana has ✨ADHD✨! And everyone knows that people with ADHD can’t work. So Casey needs to work hard and buy a new car for Alana because she can’t make her own money. /s
I have ADHD. My dad girlfriend broke my friends iPod touch I was borrowing. My dad still decided it was my responsibility to get a job and pay for it. I did but insisted it was still his girlfriends fault. To which he said, "Your friend trusted you to keep it in your possession. Therefore, it's your responsibility to fix it." She was the one to break it, and I still think she owes me money tbh. Of course I replaced my friends' iPod in a timely fashion! But, I'm still resentful that my dad didn't take my side when he should've because I wasn't the one to break the property. ADHD isn't a reason to lack reasoning and responsibility, and OP should do better by both of his daughters.
Edit: This happened when I was 17. I'm now 25! My dad has actually apologized, and the girlfriend is now an ex! I responded to this while on a quick break at work
You handled your responsibility to your friend, which was to replace the item you borrowed since it got ruined whilst you had it on loan. Handled A+, no notes.
Your dad's GF broke an item and refused to pay to have it replaced. F, no notes needed.
Your dad: F. MANY, MANY notes, but they're basically the comments section on this post, Your dad is roughly as pathetic as OP.
This happened when I was 17. I'm now 25, My dad has actually apologized, and the girlfriend is now an ex! It was one of those moments where he realized that it may be in the best interest of his other children not to bring someone around unless he knows they aren't gonna act like this 😅 I was the uh, "practice child" if you will as I'm a whole 5 ½ years older than my oldest younger sibling
Why the fuck aren't you demanding that your dad's girlfriend pay you for something SHE broke? Speak to your dad about this, or you will resent him forever.
Better yet, make an AITAH post and show your dad the thread of what people think of his worthless arse.
Take her phone and tell her you will give it back once she has paid for the broken ipod. Or better yet, break her phone. Oopsie! Now you're even!
The ONLY reason your dad did what he did is that he was fucking her. He is a selfish prick.
This happened 8 years ago now. My dad and I have talked about it. She's been an ex for about that long now, too. I was 17 when it happened. My issue is that he apologized 8 years after the fact, lol. But he admitted that him fucking her was in fact why he took her side and had decided around that time that he just wasn't going to date until he knew how to not prioritize his dick getting wet (I have 3 younger siblings by him he's trying to do better for)
But he took me to a few festivals/events that more than make up for the cost of the iPod at the time (about $168 ish at the time, iirc. Because it took one whole paycheck.) It was more I didn't get any apologies for it until I brought it up years later as a thing that he allowed that was fucked up (there were a couple of those that he's since apologized for.) It's wild knowing that I was raised by a completely different version of my dad than my siblings are currently being raised by!
I appreciate all the growth he's made over the years! I think this is the only thing I really have left to let go of. Other than that him and I talk on a regular basis. There's still some iffy moments on both of our ends as we're growing as people (which happens in any relationship, really!). I took like 2 years off of talking to him when I was 18-20 due to a lot of our combined and separate problems. But when past issues were brought up in regards to how people he let into his life treated me, he said, "I'm sorry that I allowed people into our lives at the time that hurt you and disrespected you." There was more to it but my mother's response to some more pressing issues surrounding people that she brought into the lives of her children (I'm their only shared child) she simple stated, "I mean I'm sorry for what other people have done to you but that's not my fault." Needlessly to say, despite this one itty bitty resentment that actually hasn't grown, I really appreciate my dad. I'm definitely nc with my mom. I see it in OP's near future, too, if he doesn't figure out how to replace his daughters car!
The daughter with ADHD needs help managing it. It might be meds, or it might be training... but it's NOT a parent that takes from their other child. And certainly not the lack of consequences.
There's a lot to unpack in this, and I don't think the OP has any CLUE how bad they're messing up.
I could pick OPs post apart sentence by sentence, but it won't matter. They were asking for validation that it's not their fault and that their daughter is being COMPLETELY unreasonable - they don't want to HEAR that they are to blame here.
They think their literal child is acting childish. New flash, they're acting like a person that is trapped by unreasonable people.
I completely agree! There are so many ways to help someone with ADHD but instead, by coddling one daughter and neglecting the other, they are showing Alana that consequences simply don't exist for her. While ADHD can certainly be a struggle, there are several things wrong in this post, and I'm sure this isn't the first time something like this has happened even on a lesser scale than a car! He's allowing one daughter to destroy things because, "Well, she has adhd!" It's certainly not an excuse, and luckily, he didn't get the validation he wanted! This whole situation is messed up. The law doesn't really care about adhd. If his daughter borrowed someone's car in adulthood and did the same thing, I'm sure calling the other person unreasonable for wanting her to pay for said car wouldn't work in court. Nor would crying on about how she has ADHD and this could ruin her performance at work! They are failing to teach her how the real world works
Agreed. Treat the ADHD. My friend has it, works and graduated from UC Berkeley. These parents are not helping either kid. I have ADD and can hold down a job and be held accountable for my actions or mistakes.
Same. I am adhd as well, work is easier than school was. And the parents can probably at least find something for Casey to use until they can afford to do something else.
I have ADHD like a son of a bitch and just got medicated 3 months ago. I'm 32. You know what my parents never did? Used it as an excuse. My son is 13 and has some gnarly adhd. You know what I teach him? Accountability and tools to help him along with his medication. He has a counselor at the school he gets to see a few times a week so if he's overwhelmed in class he can get it done in there. I don't excuse his behavior, I don't act like he's gods gift to earth or some person on hospice when he's a fucking teenager with ADHD and needs realness and stability. You are doing Alana a huge disservice babying and coddling her and teaching her zero coping skills when it comes to her ADHD. She'll have to live with it for the rest of her life and you guys showing her she can get what she wants if she says its her ADHD is just silly. I can't believe you are acting like this over adhd
I got diagnosed at 41 after having three fender benders that were all my fault. The diagnosis didn’t exist when I was a kid. I think it became more difficult when we started college level classes, but I got validation from school that i didn’t get from home, so I busted my ass.
What wasn’t hard was my first job. I worked as a grocery store cashier. I never had trouble with my till coming up short, I always won contests to see which of us knew the most produce codes. (I’m a card carrying nerd and damn proud of it.
Agreed. I am only learning now in my 30s because I am so aware that ADHD could affect my driving.
I do hold down a full time job etc, but driving a giant metal deathball is something else, something everyone should respect can be dangerous.
Yes, people with ADHD can usually learn to drive safely, some are even extra careful, but I still wouldn’t want to buy a nice car until I have had YEARS of experience.
On the scale of things you should consider avoiding if you have ADHD, getting a job while doing school work ranks far lower than driving a nice car. If the parents couldn’t pay to replace it they should never have let her drive it.
Also, what the heck are you teaching your child with ADHD. That her ADHD is an excuse to get off scot-free with anything? In the real world it won't work that way. I have ADHD, not once have I ever used it as an excuse except for when I space out on my husband while we're watching TV.
You're teaching one child, that she has an excuse for everything and there's no consequences. And the other child that, their hard work, their property doesn't matter. I would feel like you're playing favorites and I would be doing exactly what your older daughter is doing as well.
Also with how genetically prevalent ADHD is, I wouldn’t be surprised if Casey has internally fought her own battles and worked through significant challenges (aside from her parents blindness to her needs) to get the car and succeed as much as she has.
Tell me about it. I remember asking my mom if I could be ADHD in middle school and her saying “no, you do too well in school.” Guess who got diagnosed at 28.
My aunt is a school psychologist. We were discussing how many of us had adhd one day and my grandmother (in her 80s at the time) was running around being spastic. My aunt just gestures and says “it’s genetic. We don’t have to wonder where it comes from.”
Both my parents, 3/4 of my siblings, at least one grandparent, most of my biological aunts and uncles, several of the aunts and uncles that married into the family, and tons of my cousins. We’re a fun but dangerous bunch.
Yes, I hate to assume, (because it makes an ass out of u and me) but it seems like Alana is also a part of the problem by exaggerating how much her ADHD affects her, and using it as a crutch.
“No mom and dad I can’t do the dishes tonight, my ADHD doesn’t let me focus”
Stuff like that
I likely have ADHD (have not gotten formally diagnosed) and I could see myself doing the same thing, especially when I was a teenager, if it wasn’t for the fact that it just feels incredibly shitty to do something like that, and lazy as hell.
Alana is being coddled HARD and will flounder in the real world if her parents don't change their approach. FFS, she's (I'm assuming) a sophomore in high school! They have probably been coddling her like this for YEARS and poor Casey has just finally had enough and snapped.
I have ADHD and am a bad driver (I'm better since diagnosis and medication). I try NOT to drive nice cars because I know this is an area where I struggle.
Husband and I both have ADHD and worked in high school and college while going to school FT. Sometimes it's actually really helpful to have things outside of school because school is not set up to help ADHD folks succeed or feel good about ourselves. Work can be a place where we succeed, excel, develop skills. I also see so many people with ADHD who despise school, drop out of college or don't attend college and then do nothing because we push them to think that's the only acceptable pathway to success. Doing well in school is not the only criteria for success. Helping Alana explore and embrace her skills and finding ways to pursue those could ultimately be very beneficial for her. We're trying to raise our ADHD six year old to realize that not everyone is good at the same things and all talents can be super powers. Worksheets? They suck. Parkour? Could be a super power ....
It’s actually pretty common for parents to get diagnosed after their kids. Idk if that will continue to be the case on the future, but when I was a kid, it was not recognized as a disorder that adults could have
Myself, one of my parents (undiagnosed but HIGHLY likely according to my therapist after I described their behaviors), my spouse, and one of my nephews have ADHD.
Actually, parenting doesn’t make much of a difference. If you have a dopamine regulation issue, you have a dopamine regulation issue similar to being a midget, better parenting doesn’t prevent you from being one
Sounds like a child got in a genuine accident and was sincerely apologetic. Same child has a learning disability and struggles in school... Dad looking for some parenting advice and just getting slammed... But I guess that's the name of the sub, so he got what he deserved posting his q here.
How is getting into an accident poor behavior?? anyone can get into a car accident. The older sister accepted liability of her driving and the potentials that comes with.
Came here to say this. My ADHD does not absolve me of the consequences of my actions. Since the older daughter bought the car herself, she is owed a replacement. Babying the ADHD daughter is not going to help her in the long run. She needs to learn how to navigate life with her disability. It should not be used as an excuse by her or her parents.
I fully agree. My youngest son has really bad ADHD and a learning disability that makes dislexia easy. He was never allowed to use his problems as an excuse. As a result he works a full time job. He owns his own home. He has been financially responsible for himself over 35 years. In fact after my husband died I _moved in with him when I lost my home during the housing bubble of 2008.
How do you define poor behavior? Is it only actions taken that hurt others? Does not doing the dishes count? What about putting off taxes till October? Poor behavior to one person might not be poor behavior to another.
Ultimately this situation is 100% on the parents, so it has nothing to do with adhd.
From Casey’s perspective not only is it unfair, it’s unjust as well. Especially if you as the parents were why she “allowed” Alana to drive the car in the first place.
Without OP outlining the specific circumstances that led to this loan of the car, i am struggling to believe it didn’t involve pressure from the parents.
Especially since (most likely) the parents had her under their insurance, otherwise how could they keep the money paid out for the totaled car to use for medical bills instead. I still can't understand why the car insurance would not pay both, the only thing I can think of is a cap on the total amount paid out for everything, and it must have been low.
The only thing I can think of is that the parents have just flat out kept the money. If a car is totaled and the compensation isn’t coving replacement you can negotiate that. You can essentially show comps of what the market price is for the vehicle and get that amount back. I had a friend do that on his older bmw.
I’d also hope they had medical insurance as a matter of course to cover anything not paid for as far as the medical bills go.
Well, frequently if a MVA is involved, the medical insurance will deny for the third-party liability (the med pay portion from the auto insurance). However, if there is no med-pay or the med-pay is exhausted before the bills are covered, it can then go to the medical plan and get paid (but OP still would be on the hook if deductible wasn't met yet or for whatever co-insurance there might be). I work in insurance follow up for a hospital, so that's what I've seen.
It does sound like OP used the payout for the totaled car in addition to any med-pay that may/may not have been part of the coverage. Probably has one of those plans with a high deductible. OP is still TA.
Yes, because why wouldn’t they have used just some of the pay out for this supposed high deductible? I personally don’t choose insurance deductibles I’d be unable to pay…
I say this as an adult diagnosed with severe ADHD that had a job at 14 while also, of course, having severe ADHD. Balancing a job, school work, and extracurricular activities actually helped me have structure and managed my symptoms. If you’re not willing to even explore that with Alana then you’re not considering all possibilities of what could positively impact her future.
My parents had the same concerns when I first started my job, but were pleasantly surprised that it improved my self worth which helped my grades improve on top of earning money.
I have severe ADHD and didn't get a diagnosis or treatment until I was 28. This is a well-written post, and I really appreciate it.
A diagnosis makes some mistakes understandable, but it doesn't make them excusable.
Also, I don't know what treatment looks like for kids with ADHD, but I imagine that there are so many factors affecting a still-developing person's brain that even with treatment, results will vary! Teenagers are still teenagers.
Nice of you to assume they have the funds saved for this when they can’t replace her car and pay medical bills. Honestly, i am saying nice of you cause I have a feeling Casey knows who is the golden child and not to rely on her parents for anything.
Unfortunately, she'll still have to rely on them to complete their part of the FAFSA. Hopefully, Casey has college plans that involve community college and a lot of scholarships and other grants--but then what little OP has told us suggests that she'd have her head on straight about that.
And the community college with scholarships/grants is a very viable option for some career paths. My 23yo son did that, and now is in his third year working in his career field (IT).
LOL yeah those parents pay for Casey's education? Is a huge joke. They don't care about casey, this posts makes that extremely clear unfortunately. You and I both know that is not the case, these people would never pay for her education. And I am willing to go out on a limb and say that they will likely pay for Alana's education before even considering paying for Casey's.
“But no one in thr real word will take adhd as an excuse for not paying rent or what is owed.”
You hit the nail on the head. Imagine calling your credit card company and being like “sorry I can’t pay this off, I have ADHD.” Or the bank that holds your mortgage. ABSOLUTELY not.
I was going to reply until I saw your reply. As a grown-ass adult with ADHD all his 55 year life, beautifully said. Our problems may not be our fault, but they are our responsibility, and you’re absolutely right that ADHD is no excuse, for anything. It’s something you learn to manage, because that’s really your only choice. ADHD doesn’t define us, and OP is infantilizing his daughter by using it to define Alana, which makes him the asshole right there even if nothing else happened.
I have little doubt Casey’s parents made her share her car, or are simply not holding their younger daughter accountable. OP’s story is transparently incomplete. The obvious answer is to get a bank loan so Casey can get a new car, and then make Alana pay them back for it over time, but I guess they’d prefer just to let Alana off Scott free and alienate their older daughter. YTA, OP.
I know OP's getting absolutely rocked in the comments, but I appreciate their efforts toward Alana's ADHD. That consideration is a rare thing that many of us aren't so lucky to have.
That said, that gentleness can't be at the expense of important lessons or growth. It's very hard to strike a balance between "You will always be accepted and safe at home" with "but the real world won't be so kind, and you need to know how to adapt to that with confidence." OP has let the scales tip, and now they're doing a disservice to both children.
Alana's going to learn a lot of lessons the hardest way possible in the coming years if they don't right this ship, and they don't have a lot of time.
I’m going to second this and say that as someone with quite severe ADHD - almost didn’t graduate, regularly changed jobs until I got treatment, have some substance abuse issues. The usual ADHD story, right?
Anyhow - I won’t presume to know what you are or aren’t doing for Alana but a mix of medication and learning to take accountability were things I got stuck teaching myself as an adult. You cannot allow nothing to happen to Alana and expect her to be better for it, let alone your relationship with Casey. Growing up without that sense of responsibility and consequence will only make the ADHD issues as an adult worse. Ask me how I know.
A compromise might be a day or two per week of work to contribute to a fund for Casey’s replacement vehicle or a job she works on school breaks, or some other arrangement to help pay things off. A car is a major purchase and for suburban Americans and especially teens is their only way to get out into the rest of the world. Casey feels like she’s had her freedom stolen from her that she rightfully earned and now you’ve sided against her and told her “tough shit”.
Yea treating the responsible daughter like shit and enabling the adhd daughter is just straight up horrific parenting. Choices and consequences need to be learned, even at a young age. The world gives no fucks about adhd. She needs to work to earn it off and get her sister whole from the car and probably buy her sister something nice after that as an apology.
Yes, ADHD is on a spectrum. You absolutely can get disability benefits if your ADHD is severe enough. I'm surprised at how many redditors are saying they have ADHD and are not aware of this.
I can't - and don't - drive because of my ADHD. Looks like they just discovered their daughter can't, either.
I think they should make it clear to their daughter she isn't driving unless she's assessed. But the fears of tanking her school by working are legitimate ones.
Tbh, I think Mom or dad is going to need to get a second job to replace the car faster. That's the price for not taking the car seriously.
It’s sad, and what I am about to say is coming the youngest of a 2 daughter family who has severe ADHD although I am an adult, this family is teaching Alana to avoid responsibility for all of her problems by using her diagnosis from what it sounds like…
I have pretty severe ADHD and I had two jobs in high school. You might want to look into something that is part time but pays decent, like refereeing soccer.
Well said. One thing that came to my mind to is since adhd is often passed down genetically, there’s a decent chance Casey has it as well and is just pushing through as they focus on Alana. Obviously we have know way of knowing this, but it’s not uncommon as far as I’m aware.
My partner let his license expire. He didn’t feel like he could drive safely. He only has vision in one eye, but they still have him a license. When he was diagnosed as an adult with ADHD, he now says that is another good reason not to drive. When he last drove, he’d get distracted and blew through a red light once (no one was around thankfully). He doesn’t trust that he can do it safely and we live somewhere he can luckily avoid needing to be in a car most of the time (and has me for when he needs to). My step sister has adhd and has totaled several cars, including once with her baby in the back. I’ve been in the car with her when she drives and I do not feel safe—she’s always got one hand messing with the music, gesturing, etc.
I think in the US telling people not to drive or have a license is often a near death sentence. And that sucks, because it is HARD to be an attentive driver, even for those not neurodiverse. Heck, daylight savings leads to a significant increase in collisions. As do changing weather patterns, like extreme heat. I wish there were more alternatives because driving is a huge responsibility that requires knowledge and attention, but we don’t have the infrastructure to make alternatives viable.
Anyways, yeah, a 16 year old with such severe ADHD should maybe have more years of practicing with a parent before driving independently.
There are so many replies here, so I doubt you will see this but:
Thank you kind internet stranger, I have severe adhd and I don’t think I have ever seen anything that describes the struggle so accurately. I feel so seen. Thank you
Can I just add to the work being easier than school: me and all many of my siblings have adhd, and not only has work been easier than school for ALL of us, but working physically active jobs with daily changes (ie landscaping, construction, really any job on your feet) helped most of us with managing our ADHD.
Boosting this comment.. as someone with ADHD and started working before I graduated just so I could do for myself. My parents favored my lil half sister.. I was always treated differently by everyone in my family.
All of this is great information and well thought out. As a fellow ADDer, I went down a deep ‘glass child’ rabbit hole when you said look it up 🤣 Love what you contributed to this, hope OP actually takes it in.
Yes. If this had been anyone else’s vehicle, OP would have been sued and lost. OP would then either cough up the money or have their wages garnished to pay the settlement. Don’t shit on your own kid.
It wasn’t the kid that owned the car that got into a bad accident and totaled her own car; that would be different. In that case, losing the car she wanted to have would be a lesson. Here, the lesson is something different.
Your ADHD comments reminded me of a friend of a friend (who I’ll call John). He had pretty obvious ADHD and nobody held him accountable for anything, they’d just go “Yeah that’s John, you can’t get mad at him haha.” He essentially got rewarded for acting worse. John’s friends had created a monster. He’d steal things from friends and just shrug when he got caught, because his friends never said “This isn’t okay. Do not do this.” They’d go “Oh, John” and laugh.
It frustrated me so much. Not because he had ADHD but because other people acted like you should accept literally any behavior from him. There are some bad stories I’m leaving out to keep this vague.
I regret that I can only upvote this comment once. It is crystal clear.
OP -- YTA for all the reasons outlined above.
Casey has every right to be furious -- she has been harmed financially and socially through no fault of her own (and no one really believes that Mom and Dad didn't pressure Casey into allowing the precious Alanna to use Casey's car instead of using a car that Mom or Dad use). And then after she has been harmed, it's like "oh well, we can't do anything for you until next year [unvoiced: sucks to be you]"
Casey's already stated what she plans to do, and she's not too far off from being able to implement it.
This response said everything that needs to be said. Do better by both your children. Help Alana learn to do all the things she needs to do while having ADHD. ADHD can be tough and also, my husband refers to it as his super power. It's about perspective and how you harness it. You're teaching her that she can use it as reasoning for not being responsible.
From the perspective of an older sibling who was forced to share with a younger ADHD sibling who destroyed my items and stole my money, all this sort of parenting does is destroy any sibling bond. I feel obligation to my younger sister and help her if and when she needs it, but I don’t like her and do not plan to ever allow her near my children. This sort of parenting also tells the adhd sibling that they are an invalid and incapable of basic accountability. Thats my 28 year old sister —- nothing is ever her fault, and mommy and daddy still pick up the slack and foot her bills.
Working while in school does affect how well you do academically. With or without ADHD, working is physically and mentally exhausting. He has no problem with Casey working to pay for her own things, but “oh no, my precious broken Alana can’t work. She’s fragile. We can’t let her ruin her future.” I hope Casey cuts off contact with them. She deserves better parents.
I also think that even if Casey would have lend her sister the car volontarily, given the circumstances, it would be the adult‘s responsibility to supervise Alana when using the car. I think in such a situation, even when Alana didn’t have Adhd, the parents should mediate this and make sure everything is ok at the end - meaning they should have imposed it as a condition - „how nice of Casey to have lent you her car! but just to be sure nothing bad happens, you will drive it only with one of us in the car“. This way I think everybody wins, Casey feels appreciated and maybe wouldn’t resent her position so much, Alana drives the car which she wanted, the parents acknowledge both their daughters‘ needs and maybe create stronger bonds?
Agreed. My son has adhd and in no way do myself or his father let him get away with his behavior just because he has it. He knows that there are consequences for his actions. We are firm about accountability.
It’s crazy how some parents will use adhd as an excuse.
You can get disability benefits IF your symptoms of adhd prevent you from working a full time job ie chronic fatigue due to adhd I can't work full time without needing a nap mid day.. also my autism diagnosis. I can work part time but no one wants to pay their part time employees a liveable wage
I'm almost certain that vehicle was titled to parents as Casey is under 18. Under 18's can't own property and can't even have a bank account without some adult having access.
Depends where you are. In my country you can own property at 16 legally, have a bank account your parents can't access, and insurance is tied to the driver, not the vehicle.
What a load of crap! Casey can’t report Alana for anything. Alana had permission to drive a properly insured vehicle.
The fact Casey didn’t have the vehicle insured to cover replacement cost is her choice NOT Alana’s fault.
OP never said Alana was a fault only that she was injured in the accident.
I would say they arent looking out for either child.
They are not teaching Alana coping skills or strategies to manage her adhd in a place where no one cares she has it aka the real world. They are setting her up to fail. She needs to get a job and shouldnt be driving a thousand ton metal death machine if its so bad. Next time someone may die. And i have adhd and it has gotten worse as i get closer to menopause but i still need to work to pay rent and feed myself and my dog.
They are not supporting Casey in all they ways you said.
What I'm seeing here is that Casey's shut down isn't about the car - it is about her having to put up with a lifetime of enabled bullshit by parents who are too selfish to get over themselves. OP has NEVER looked out for Casey. Casey's problems have probably been minimized, downplayed, or gaslighted out of existence her whole life. The glass child has finally broken, OP.
I was waiting for someone to point out that Casey was likely forced by her parents to lend her hard-earned car to someone who was probably destroyed her belongings before, whether by playing too hard with them as the younger son or perhaps through ADHD related absent-mindedness. If you can’t afford to replace something, you can’t afford to borrow it. Between the parents and the person who totalled the car, THEY should be replacing the car, or they are all assholes. OP can get a side gig AND little sis Alana can ask get a job and actually experience consequences.
I have ADHD and actually a really good driving record. That said, I still don’t enjoy driving other people’s cars while DD-ing etc because their drunk asses usually talk to me too much and I find it distracting. Each driver has to learn their limits. Did OP really not consider a new driver with ADHD to perhaps be at risk of having an accident? Why didn’t he lend HIS car?
Yah that girls gonna be gone. Sadly they have done what a lot of parents I've seen in my line of work do. They make the child that is "different" the focus, center of attention, and they always have to be doing something for them etc so the resentment is probably already there. I agree they definitely made her let her sister take the car. Seems like favoritism is also possible here. This poor girl was told work hard, she did and then her sister took her hard work and ruined it and can't even work weekends where she doesn't have school to pay for it?!?
Thank you for pointing out all the real life law situations to this family as well. I feel for her and I've sadly seen this too many times and the family always sees the kid who leaves as horrible and selfish when they're not, they're your child and they felt neglected and second fiddle, always on the back burner because the other childw needs. I hope they can fix it but most of all I wish the best for her and that she is free of them if she so chooses and they don't change. Having the whole family against you is hard especially for a 17 year old that did NOTHING wrong.
casey is already 17. in a year she will be an adult. she will likely leave before OP even bothers to try to replace the car. it is a crushing blow to feel so unloved by comparison to the coddled. if alana sucks at school and can't handle a job, she shouldn't have been behind the wheel. and newsflash: some peeps with adhd are better drivers b/c it utilizes their brains ability to be distracted as mitigation for potential dangerous situations on the road if they are even remotely trying to focus on driving, so... yeah. i got 3 kids diagnosed with adhd. the one had an accident due to drinking and driving, not adhd. the other was hit by someone else, not her fault, she was at a stop light not even moving yet and got tboned by a moronic old man who "thought" the light would've -yes, WOULD HAVE- been green by then. yeah. so i call BS on alana. she had no business being behind a wheel. and OP should have lent alana HIS car or the mom's car. i get the plight of affordability, but alana totaled the car. she should contribute. she's got adhd not cancer!
For real! It sounds to me like the parents took on the responsibility when they pressured the Casey. Now they don't want to pay the consequences. At the very least the parents should sit down with Casey and outline their plan for saving up and replacing the car. Immediately fixing the problem isn't possible but that doesn't excuse you from finding a solution.
Wait, I didn’t even catch that! They “allowed” Alana totally means they allowed her without Casey’s direct permission. Probably done behind her back or was told to play ball and don’t be a stick in the mud. Well look what happened. Now they wonder where it all went wrong. Really guy? Them and the wife are a trip. Family therapy for this? They’re the cause and they don’t even know it. Talk about head in the sand.
YTA. I'm honestly sick of people using ADHD as a crutch, which is exactly what you're doing, OP. You aren't doing your youngest any favors. You're giving her the impression that her ADHD will get her out of shit—it won't, and it shouldn't.
I have ADHD and not once have I asked for leniency on account of it. When I was a child my parents refused to acknowledge that I had it—and thank god they did, because who knows how it would have affected my expectations of myself. It makes a lot of things more difficult. I've had to take the initiative and make a lot of behavioral adjustments to be successful in my career, and not once have I expected special treatment. Sure, everyone's ADHD manifests differently, but I feel like you are teaching your daughter to make excuses for her behavior.
I have severe ADHD and I've been driving for 18 years. No accidents. I also have been working to earn money my whole life starting from around her daughter's age. ADHD isn't an excuse. Yeah I have issues with a lot of things but learning coping strategies is very important. Also training your kid to correct their mistakes is just as important.
If they were adults, Casey could just report her for destruction of property and get the money for the car that way. Alana's adhd would not be seen as a mitigating circumstance, but might end up with her licence revoked. Even as a minor, she could still technically do that. Though she'd be taking you to court, not Alana, since Alana is also a minor you're legally responsible for.
To be clear, this isn't a thing. There is no such thing as a court case "for destruction of property."
You seem to be forgetting that destruction of property is still a crime, even if accidental, if the person refuses to pay the damages.
Absolutely not. Property crimes require intent. A car accident is not a crime unless there was some other underlying crime (e.g., speeding, negligence, recklessness, DUI, driving without a license, etc).
Accidently destroying property without criminal intent is not a crime. This is pretty straight-forward.
It may or may not result in civil liability, but even that requires being able to make some cognizable claim (e.g., negligence). If the sister was just sitting at a stop light and was rear-ended by someone without insurance, there is not going to be a crime or civil liability. There would be no fault or liability for the sister. The same is true for accidents where there wasn't negligence on the part of the driver (car system failures, road defects, tire ruptures, accidents caused by other drivers, etc). In fact, if the accident was caused by faulty brakes or tires or something, it might be Casey that is liable for negligence to Alana.
Combined with this I think gets at the heart of the situation:
From Casey's perspective you're using Alana's adhd as an excuse to let her get away with poor behaviour
You are making a huge assumption here. That Alana engaged in any poor behavior. You also assumed--wrongly--that the parents had anything to do with Casey loaning Alana the car. Now you are assuming the accident involved poor behavior. There is no reason to think it did.
Needless to say, these assumptions inform basically everything you say. If the parents had nothing to do with Casey loaning her car to Alana, that really changes the context for her refusing to talk to her parents for something they had nothing to do with. That would be a 17yo expecting her parents to fix everything and throwing a temper tantrum when it didn't happen fast enough.
Likewise, if Alana didn't do anything wrong, if the accident was just an accident, or it was caused by another driver especially, that really changes the context of Casey's reaction.
I think the correct answer here is that we do not have enough info to fully answer. Although we do know the parents weren't even involved in the conversation between Casey and Alana regarding borrowing the car.
I have severe ADHD. I worked while in highschool. I'm working full time now in the military and taking college classes at night. College would be the same shittines even if I wasn't working.
YTA - i have adhd i hated school and loved to work,it would be good for alana to get some real life skills and learn that everything has consequences. If you are so worried about her grades help her more.
What you are doing is really just gonna cause longterm distance between the sisters.
Not to mention, OP makes it sound like Alana is unable to function to work so he's focused on her school? Is he planning on Alana NEVER working? Will she live with them forever?
What happened to the money that insurance company DID pay out?
I can also bet Casey has been made to give things up to Alana her whole life. Alana wants your toy, just give it to her. You’re going to a friends birthday party, you must take Alana. Alana wants the new outfit you bought yourself, just give it to her,etc.
Casey isn’t going silent for this one incident, it’s being made to give up everything she ever had her whole lifetime. This was the breaking point.
Work is not necessarily easier than school for ADHD people. Certainly not the boring, monotonous work available to a high-schooler
It was an accident. What should the parents do? Beat Alana? She’s already been sufficiently punished by the suffering from the accident. Further suffering won’t help.
I see no indication in OP’s post that Casey’s decision to let Alana drive was coerced by the parents.
Forcing Alana to work would absolutely hurt her grades and her future. Not only is it just a short-sighted decision to trade that for a car, but I’d wager Casey would grow to regret that for the rest of her life. I know I would if I’d hurt my sibling’s future.
It wouldn’t be a destruction of property if Casey let her use the car. IF Alana is at fault, Police would investigate and there would likely be at least a ticket that Alana would have to pay. Plus the liability deductible and the medical insurance deductible/copays.
This puts it into words beautifully. ADHD (coming from someone who also has it) is no excuse. I’d be putting my daughter (I have three) to work in order to make it right as a parent should.
And that "Casey allowed it" implies that Casey didn't go running to snatch the keys out of Alanna's hand after Alanna asked OP/OP's wife if she could use a car and they said "take Casey's".
Inferences from "Alanna ... asked to drive Casey's car" (not "Alanna asked Casey if she could drive her car") and Casey's level of anger suggests that 1) "loan" of car was coerced at best or she's co-titled with OP and OP is the one who gave permission 2) this is far from the first time that she's been asked to put her needs [and reliable transportation is a need] subordinate to Alanna.
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u/Cool_Relative7359 5d ago edited 5d ago
YTA.
Let me preface this by saying I'm an adult with adhd who specifically works with kids who have adhd.
First of all, a car isn't a small thing. This has severely limited Casey's mobility. She worked hard to be able to drive a car she wanted and be mobile.
Alana's adhd is no excuse in this situation, if I'm honest. If the adhd was why she crashed the car, she shouldn't be driving yet. But no one in thr real word will take adhd as an excuse for not paying rent or what is owed. You don't get disability benefits for it. And for a many adhders, work is easier than school. Schools are uniquely horrible environments for adhders since the learning is not set up for an interest based nervous system and lecturing isn't a good way for us to learn. Nor is being forced to sit still.
If they were adults, Casey could just report her for destruction of property and get the money for the car that way. Alana's adhd would not be seen as a mitigating circumstance, but might end up with her licence revoked. Even as a minor, she could still technically do that. Though she'd be taking you to court, not Alana, since Alana is also a minor you're legally responsible for.
What were you expecting? From Casey's perspective Alana destroyed her property and got off scottfree. From Casey's perspective not only is it unfair, it's unjust as well. Especially if you as the parents were why she "allowed" Alana to drive the car in the first place.
Most siblings wouldn't want to share something they worked that hard for with a sibling. Let alone one with adhd. It makes us hard on property, as much as I wish it didn't. I don't borrow things from other people for this reason. The impulsivity and hyperactivity aren't conducive to returning things in the same state you were given them in. And from the language youve used, I'd be willing to bet that "allowing" Alana to drive her car wasn't entirely volontary on Casey's part. And if it wasn't, then Casey holds you responsible, as she should.
From Casey's perspective you're using Alana's adhd as an excuse to let her get away with poor behaviour. And doing both Casey and Alana a disservice in the process. The real world won't care about Alana's adhd if she's financially or legally responsible for something. And you're teaching Casey that she's secondary to Alana. Look up glass children if you haven't come across the term before.
So would a court case for an adult who destroyed someone's property. Alana isn't an adult, but you as her parents are the legally respsibile for the damages she incurs. Even if it's against her sibling. You seem to be forgetting that destruction of property is still a crime, even if accidental, if the person refuses to pay the damages.
Yes, you do. And you're not looking out for Casey here. At all.
She's got a year left and then she can go be NC with you. She just might