I bet lawmakers will start to make laws forbidding hiding your identity from facial recognition sooner or later.
Facial recognition just ten to fifteen years ago could be fooled with something as simple as a bandaid on your face. Around that time they improved quite a bit, I believe a lot of these old wanted fugitives that were caught around that period may have been identified by facial recognition.
Not necessarily a sentence, but certainly Palestinian protestors have been arrested in Germany for messaging, as far as I can tell and have read, watched video of, etc.
But no for real. If you actually look at human history we have always been like this. I don’t expect things to change just because we are in “modern” times. We are barbaric cavemen in our hearts.
Yes. They will. The EU, unlike many governments, is not toothless. They can make google and apple listen. What makes you think they can't force others?
Bold of you to assume that the EU government themselves won't use the tech against you, if they aren't already. At the end of the day, that's who you have to worry about. What's the worst a company can do? Market to you more efficiently? The government can use it to track you down if you break a tyrannical law.
When companies start using extrajudicial police forces to enforce their own policies, taxes and "laws", we can fight it together. As well as whatever government allows it to happen. Until then, I'm far more concerned with the people who actually hold power being able to identify and target you on a whim.
A Corporatocracy* is essentially unelected corporations acting as a government. Sort of like what the mafia was doing in prohibition era America, only without the actual government to combat them. If a country like that exists today, please educate me.
Even in prohibition era America, where we can all agree that corruption was significantly more open and prevalent than today, the mafia still had to pay off the government in all levels to be allowed to operate. If the government didn't allow it, they'd be shut down. If even back then we didn't live in a corporatocracy, I can't buy that we live in one today.
An unbroken 70 year slide towards pro business neoliberal austerity with zero sign of stopping. Liberal policy hasn't in any way nerfed business, curtailed human rights abuses, slowed the environmental destruction, stopped forever wars. It won't stop AI.
Stop putting faith in the system. It's time for bigger change than BAU politics can provide.
It has actually done a lot. The Brussels effect is real and helps the whole world. EU regulations help the enviroment - why would it be that when Brexit happened, suddenly their waters became so much more polluted?
The EU has also been a major reason for european peace. The original form of the EU was just to deal with trading coal and such, and the plan was for trade to make countries too interdependent to be able to wage wars against each other and it worked. Clearly, this system managed to prevent war.
You are too cynical with little real world examples to back it up. Let us work with what we have, not just throw up our arms and give up, it's so joever, the west has fallen, AI must reign free from interference, etc.
Not necessarily. As of right now it is legislation keeping it in check but if that wasn't the case and this stuff was being massively invasive in people's lives, it wouldn't be long before a mob burns down the HQ of whichever company it is pushing the AI. The legislation is just the civil way of doing it, but I have no doubt that if this shit gets bad in the next few years we will turn to other means of regulating it...
No? I am saying that legislation is the way that society has decided to manage itself for now, and when/if that breaks down, and corporations start abusing the public, that the public absolutely will remedy the situation. The reason we haven't seen mobs like this in the modern day is because of legilsation being the primary shaper of our societies. If we remove that, things will get bloody very quickly, and it won't be the 99% that come out worse for wear.
No one is ever going to get bloody if legislation starts turning the other direction over AI. There are much bigger issues regulation and legislation have failed to stop or supported the detrimental side of that people just sigh and accept than AI being used for better facial recognition technology or whatever the fuck. Like all other modern problems it's just going to be 'no way people will let that happen right? Oh damn it happened. No way people will let that continue happening right? Oh damn it's continuing. Wow the world is fucked.' Then in ten, twenty years it will just be seen as normal that governments have facial recognition software.
Depends on how far it goes in the other direction. Facial recognition definitely isn't going to be the thing that causes it, especially since we already have facial recognition tech being used in a lot of places. I am talking more broadly (and probably uselessly vaguely) about AI being used to allow the owner class to dominate the workers.
A significant number of the working class are already very nervous about AI which you can see pretty much everywhere that the technology is being discussed, and if it starts being pushed as a means to oppress or control us, it won't take very much for that nervousness to become demands, and then for those demands to turn become action.
You haven't read enough history. Do you know how many times before the last ~80 years that progress was achieved at the behest of a pissed off and blood drenched (not literally) mob? It is just what humans do when things get bad enough.
Yeah not so much anymore. People are too divided. Government and companies keep citizens divided and arguing over things not important like skin colour and other non issues, citizens are too easily manipulated and propaganda machines are fully running. I really don’t see angry mobs coming out for change especially something like this. People don’t care enough as they work paycheck to paycheck to worry about this. Americans already gave up their 4th amendment basically and didn’t care
We are nowhere near as divided as previous generations, and we are only here to live the way we do right now because they succeeded in spite of that division. I mean consider the state of society in America during the civil rights movement, wherein the moderate position in America was that black people should just cope with their oppression and not disturb the peace, and then think about what was ultimately achieved with that movement. We can also look at the BLM protests to see that the statement that people are too divided to care is plain wrong.
We are more connected than ever and the average person has significantly more empathy for distant and/or alien cultures than at any point in world history in my opinion. Yes, there are definitely propagandists doing there thing, but the majority of people are more capable of recognising and dismissing that propaganda than in, for example, the lead up to WWII. To that point I truly believe that if we were in any era before the internet the last 8+ years wouldn't have gone the way they did, but would have been significantly worse than they ultimately have turned out to be.
If it gets bad enough, we will be able to overcome anything that is thrown our way, but to be honest with how in the know everyone on is these days, I don't think it will even get to the point that is it necessary.
I believe revolution/insurrection on a big scope is inevitable the worse late-stage capitalism gets with climate change and pandemics shitting about. But I do not believe privacy is gonna be the reason. People are too comfortable. Famine will make people angry, and ayctive violence. But not much else.
I would like to think that's true but now the Great Barrier Reef is almost at the point of no return. Capitalism is so much about growth but every year, species go extinct. I would love to be optimistic about all that but it seems like we balance on a thin thread towards self-implosion because even now you notice increasing climate catastrophes, more famine, and this will lead to more and more refugees and instability.
People are also more consumerist than ever, almost. And the better the tech, the bigger the divide, it almost seems. Automating the labour market is only good if that labour then gets paid regardless but right now the right-wing parties push for something very different. "Self responsilibity". And that whole augmented reality, AI jazz will only solidify that divide between rich and poor. Until shit hits the fan.
I agree and disagree about climate change. The earth has withstood extinction events and climate changing events significantly more severe than what we are causing as of right now, but for the first time in history the earth has an advanced civilisation occupying it during one of these events. We already have millions of scientists studying the effects that we are locked into and ways to mitigate them and year after year there are widespread news articles of nations lowering their reliance on fossil fuels. I think things will get worse than they are now environmentally, but I think ultimately we will be alright, and life on this planet will not change too significantly in the long run.
For labour I agree, and I believe we will absolutely have a UBI before/as automation begins to significantly affect the average person. I think it will be done very similar to centrelink payments during Covid. As a massive chunk of the population found themselves unable to support themselves, the government dropped all requirements for payments, and made the payments twice as much (or rather, they paid the same amount but paid it weekly instead of fortnightly). They didn't do this out of generosity but because the government understands that if a large portion of society is unable to feed themselves, and they won't help, it won't be long before that government is deposed.
We have been taking baby steps advancing for thousands of years, and we are now creating a technology that will allow us to start taking leaps. We will be okay!
The problem I see with this is that everything is intertwined. Every week more and more species go extinct in an never before seen rate. I do not expect an implosion and everything breaks down. Just a rising amount of wars, and hunger, and spread illnesses, a bigger divide between the rich and the poor. It will all boil over eventually maybe without even realizing we're going to be at a point where we have to say: well, this can't ever be changed again.
I mean, in some ways that is already true right now.
I am chronically ill and very dependent on healthcare, avilable and affordable medication and all that jazz. So I am not as much of a revolutionary as I used to be. (Not to mention that every war is horrid for the environment.) But it also makes me more worried. I hope you're right of course. And if we will ever get UBI and true AI that would be phenomenal.
You're not wrong to be honest. The environment is getting dicey, and we are going to suffer, but as far as humans go I think we will adapt quicker than most expect (not like, biologically or anything but societally), with developing means of living in newly tough-living areas, and in developing new ways to source food like vertical farms and such. I'm mostly being hopeful but a lot of the technology that we need to survive the oncoming changes is already developed or close to being developed. I think we will be okay on the famine and illness front. Especially if AI technology matures as I believe it will, which will allow more rapid advancement in all fields than we could imagine right now.
Right but net neutrality isn't really the same thing. If this stuff starts to be used to track people's whereabouts and behaviours at all times that is incredibly different.
Same laws in South Korea. They can follow is on CCTV all day, but can’t use AI or facial recognition to do it. They have to manually go thru the footage
That's how the FBI / police used to (probably still do) get away with illegally wiretapping you. They set up fake cell sites to trick your phone into connecting to them then they collect evidence and then will use what they learn to get a warrant where they know they'll find something because they already illegally monitored you. The FBI was so desperate to not have to admit they were doing it that they were dropping charges against people who asked for information on their possessions of stingray devices in court rather than talking about it in an official capacity. I think it was called parallel construction, where they basically use illegally gotten evidence to find ways to get legal evidence then hide the illegal part that lead to it
The EDPB understands the need for law enforcement authorities to benefit from the best possible tools to quickly identify the perpetrators of terrorist acts and other serious crimes.
Way to go Europe. Although as I'm sure you can guess, that will not be a thing across the pond. At least not until some important politician or CEO gets very publicly caught being naughty.
look up ClearviewAI, they lost a class action and cant afford to pay, so the government cupped their balls and gave them a pass. Well not a pass, but they said it would be justice to make Clearview cut people in on a fraction of the profits they make from having stolen their facial biometric print. So long as you confirm the data they have is correct and sign away your rights to it.
oh, in the USA we are subjected to these companies any time we go into a corporate retail establishment like walmart or home depot. Or, our government gives it to them directly like michigan giving everyones DL to DataWorks pro.
Can yall send us some of those regulations, we don't seem to have any
Europe really isn't in a position to lecture the rest of the world on privacy laws about being recorded in public.
London has 400 CCTV cameras per km². In comparison, NYC has the most in the US, at 26/km². When measured per person, that's over 50x more. Only some regions of China are worse.
Maybe they haven't started implementing AI tracking to them, but the infrastructure is in place.
Maybe they haven't started implementing AI tracking to them
I highly doubt there isn't some modicum of consequential automation to their regular use. Even if only a certain level of government actually gets access to the toolkit, while regular beat cops have to manually sift through footage for petty crime.
London isn’t Europe. Even back when it was, it was a special case. Here Germany most cameras you can see are private company cameras pointing on company property. Even in places like trainstations there are very few and often old cameras. It’s nothing special for a crime to be recorded and everything looking like it’s recorded on a potato.
We have a few public places that are known for crimes that get more police presence and a better camera network. But it would take decades to have a tight grid that’s able to track people properly. Our sentiment for cameras isn’t great either bcs of our history. DDR times were already scary to think about with people monitoring other people
People talk about Europe as if it was a unified country with the same rules and laws. In my country you could be severly punished for so much as taking a picture of someone without their consent, and I agree with that. In schools, you have to sign a paper that you consent to being on group photos and other material. We have regulations for the use of AI as well.
Eh just wait, Europeans will be the first to call for their states to crack down on themselves with facial recognition. Europeans seemingly love authoritarian regimes
He says while using a cell phone that does it automatically and is allowed because “facial recognition” whether you disable it or not. It’s way way too late now for people.
It should be illegal across the board. No one should have access to this shit. As long as anyone does, it's going to be used by the state and capital against the working class.
In my view, use of these technologies violates the unalienable right of a reasonable expectation of privacy granted to everybody in the US. I think our laws have yet to catch up to these technologies and apply that unalienable right to them. I hope they don't get brought up in today's supreme Court though
I feel like germany trying to get surveillance through every year shows that just because a law prohibiting it exists, won't stop them from using or trying to use it.
A car is a ton of metal being propelled at obscene speeds by contained explosions. They're incredibly dangerous and require a license to operate. Yes, they should have identification plates. To be blunt, equating that with facial recognition of any and all humans remotely through any camera.
of course. but when you're in your car driving around in the public roads, do you think it should carry a visible an identification plate? one that can be legally tracked to you?
Yes i am, all vehicles are death machines and should require licences and registrations to drive (as they do).
Question to you: do you think all humans walking on foot are threats?
Facial recognition in the passive form is still acceptable, however its difficult to support active surveillance- it would basically be a map of everything public (and in some cases, private) you did all day, along with timestamps. What irrefutably follows is a "but i've got nothin to hide" argument, sure, but if you're being tracked online and offline at all times, can it be guaranteed that the available information will not be used nefariously? or to crush dissent in some cases?
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u/lackofabettername123 5d ago
I bet lawmakers will start to make laws forbidding hiding your identity from facial recognition sooner or later.
Facial recognition just ten to fifteen years ago could be fooled with something as simple as a bandaid on your face. Around that time they improved quite a bit, I believe a lot of these old wanted fugitives that were caught around that period may have been identified by facial recognition.