Because leftists are trying to coopt justifying 9/11 with their own reasons to hate America.
The original tweet ignores why Osama actually planned the attack and tries to instead argue that American Imperialism is directly the reason why. This is also what Hasan himself pushed when he justified why America deserved 9/11. It's why Ethan is calling out him and his community over this.
It doesnt matter that they are still disavowing Bin Laden. They're saying that 9/11 was the right thing that happened for the wrong reasons.
I find this line of thinking odd. Wars that destabilized the middle east where America played a huge role is why America is hated throughout the region. It is not hard for extremist groups to take advantage of that hate. It is a simple push back to the neocon theory that “they hate us cause they aint us”. The point should be if you love this country stop voting for war and destabilizing forces.
Maybe it also has something to do with a radical ideology like Islamism. Maybe all terrorism isn't 100% a "reaction" to the US, and it is also because of the spread of a radical ideology through the MENA world.
It's so weird that everything in the middle east is "just a reaction" to the US and Israel, and maybe not an organic internal development withing the Muslim world?
No one is saying the US 100% is to blame. The comment I replied to had the same line of thought you just used. I specifically said that the extremist groups that are already there take advantage of the hatred people have for the US because of our actions in the region. They could not grow in significant power without this.
This will be so hard for someone who has lived their entire life in America with its securities to imagine, but try anyway. Imagine a world where the US gov along with state gov collapse due to some kind of foreign influence. Millions of Americans know someone who has been killed, millions more displaced. How hard would it be for an extremist group to come in and convince people to join for a chance at revenge?
With that said the vast majority of Muslims do not join these groups, in-fact they’re usually the victims of these extremist groups.
Why do you not see this level of extremist terror groups coming out of Indonesia? 229 million muslims who practice the same Islam that the arabs do.
The most Islamic country in the region is doing everything it can to make friends with and trade with the west. Saudi wants nothing more than make peace with the US and Israel and do trade. The government could not care less for the Palestinians.
This line of thinking has been discarded by both conservative and liberal think tanks long ago. Seems like if you want easy answers and to blame one group it’s the way to go.
It's a lot better now, because Indonesia cracked down on Islamist organizations like JI, but it was a huge problem for a long time.
Ironically you are the one presenting easy answer while pretending to be complex.
"This will be so hard for someone who has lived their entire life in America with its securities to imagine, but try anyway. Imagine a world where the US gov along with state gov collapse due to some kind of foreign influence. Millions of Americans know someone who has been killed, millions more displaced. How hard would it be for an extremist group to come in and convince people to join for a chance at revenge?"
Then why is it that so many middle class, well educated (disproportionally engineers) from the west went and joined ISIS? Why are so many Safe and Rich arabs from Saudi (like osama) creating terrorrism?
Obviously the US plays a role, but the answer is a lot more complext than you rpesent.
I figured you would google “Indonesia terrorism” and reply with the first few things you saw. You literally proved my point, none of these groups were able to grow in any significant power like ISIS was or the Taliban, or Hezbollah. They were stopped by a majority muslim Indonesian government. If there was a weak Indonesian government combined with a large enough population that has been radicalized then these extremist groups would have grown.
You have to explain why according to your world view did these extremist groups not rise to the levels of those in the middle east if they follow the same Islam. You are the one saying it is mainly Islam that causes these groups to rise not me.
You saying ISIS got some of their fighters from the west is a ridiculous point. The vast majority of the fighters were from war torn rural areas in the middle east mainly Iraq and Afghanistan. In small quantities you radicalize from any population. Alot of the people you are talking about were not born and raised muslim but white people who grew up christian in America and were radicalized in some way.
Like I said before extremist that already exists in the region like Osama can easily take advantage of the chaos/hatred from war to gain power. They cannot grow in the same way in peaceful muslim areas as you proved is the case in Indonesia.
Lastly America keeps getting brought up because I assume we are both from the US but they aren’t the only ones causing this chaos. Russia has played a huge role especially in Afghanistan. We even funded the Mujahideen fighters to fight the Russians then we fought them after that. It’s not just America but many countries that are destabilizing the middle east. There are no easy answers other than to stop making it worse with more wars.
How is this in any way racist? Do you think everything that happens in the world is a "reaction" to the US? Or maybe there are things that are happening in muslim countries organically and internally that caused islamism to rise?
I don’t think it’s trying to justify it, but rather people being blinded by their own real justified frustrations. So many conversations around 9/11 saying two things
Osama Bin Laden did it because he had a theological hatred of America
It happened because of blowback
Both of these are true at the same time. The issue is that there are folks who act like it’s only one or the other. OBL did it because he was radicalized. OBL was radicalized because the environment he was in, was ripe for radicalization due to US foreign policy. I don’t understand why Frogan continues to die on this hill. There is a much more nuanced conversation to be had.
Justifying and explaining are two different things. The role of the west in fostering the environment that led to 9/11 and the subsequent wars is just a matter of fact at this point. Very few people are trying to justify anything that osama bin Laden did or what hamas has done, but many place more emphasis on the superpowers that they believe caused these things to happen rather than vilifying the people everyone know are bad.
By occupying the Middle East to reinforce the bigotry that he has against the west. Simply reducing the reasoning down to they hate the west’s way of life is just ignorant and it’s arguably more important to learn about the situation in the Middle East that led to all of this in the first place. It doesn’t make what they do ok, but the US has handled numerous conflicts very irresponsibly.
So there’s more than one reason. And the US’s handling of conflict is very relevant to the conversation. The US armed and encourage Mujahideen groups in the Middle East including those that became Alqaeda to fight against Soviet backed afghan militants. They actively fed into and backed far right fundamental Islamist radical groups, all because it helped them “win” short term conflicts. They actively created the problem.
The US armed and encourage Mujahideen groups in the Middle East including those that became Alqaeda
That might be interesting except for how you've massively oversimplified the issues in Afghanistan with the bedtime story of "the Americans funded the Mujahideen who then became Al Qaeda" in order to shift blame away from Osama Bin Laden
There is no meaningful alt-history where we don't fund some Mujahideen, and then the Soviets bring stability and peace to Afghanistan and the Gulf War and 9/11 never happen
This is not shifting blame off of Osama Bin Laden. More than one party can be at fault. This isn’t some bedtime story, it’s just what happened. Osama Bin Laden can still be a bad person while acknowledging that the US played a large part in fostering the environment that allowed his ideas to flourish.
So are you saying it was just inevitable and it is what it is? The world superpower that held massive influence in the area had no other choice but to embolden the extremist groups?
There’s a very meaningful alternative to think about when the biggest superpower in the world doesn’t fund religious fundamentalists. America has funded conservative extremism across the world through the Cold War. History is not some simple x and then y, there’s always going to be multiple factors as play and it’s important to analyze what all those factors were and properly understand who played a part. The US has consistently fostered extremist hate in the Middle East and proceeded to break its promises to those groups which fostered further western hate which then culminated in 9-11. It’s a tragedy and he was the main actor, but it’s just a needlessly reductionist and conservative view of justice to act like examining the factors that led to the event is just a ridiculous idea.
The US funding the Mujahideen doesn't take away that Bin Laden was a horrific person, it points out the CIA's role in the destabilization of the Afghan government all because they believe "communism bad". The destabilization of their stable government made way for Osama Bin Laden to come into power. Him and his predecessors took advantage of those who were affected by the American industrial complex and how the US government was like "Well that's done. Let's just let the Afghani people deal with the right wing extremist and pretend that we didn't do anything to put them in power."
The US never "occupied" the middle east before 9/11. We signed oil for protection deal with the Saudi Royal family, and other gulf countries.
Also US soldiers in Lebanon (before the the civil war and before we left) where there because there was a pro-US, pro-Western faction of the Lebanese people who ruled the government, and wanted cooperation.
Egypt also tried to cooperate with the US, before switching sides to the Ussr.
Lefties seem unable to understand that countries in the middle east also have internal politics just like the US, and that things are complicated. It's a lot easier just to vaguely gesture to "american occupation" without knowing anything.
How many times does it need to be said that examine why something happened is not saying it’s ok. Everything is not so black and white, people are not simply good or evil.
Because the reasons are clear and given by the wanna-be totalitarian theocrat himself. When you're "examining the reason why something happened" and come up with wrong explanations that partially absolve the perpetrators in favour of putting some blame on the victim, people will interpret you as being disingenuous to push some agenda
This is complete nonsense. Assigning blame is not some zero sum game. The conversation doesn’t become that Osama Bin Laden was actually only 50% bad because the US is the other 50%.
I think that some radical leftists have an underlying ”America bad” reasoning and if you follow it blindly it can lead to insane conclusions. If you go back far enough with a tunnel vision you can even argue that Daesh (Isis) is a result of western foreign policy but that’s extremely simplistic view and doesn’t mean that the genozides they commited are justified in the name of some ”anti western freedom fight”.
You dont really need tunnel vision. Its called blowback and it applies to 9/11 too. The founders of isis met in an american POW camp and their horrific campaign filled a power vacuum left by America's wars of agression. Understanding why something happened isnt supporting it. Far too often we are told bad things happen because evil people are evil. Americans are often incurious when it comes to their country's foreign policy and role in terrible things happening across the globe.
It's so crazy people seem to understand that America has done and continues to do horrible imperialistic things but when you try pointing these things out, the effects that they have and continue to have suddenly your some sort of far left fanatic.
I think the issue is that, while yes, we can all agree the US has done awful things, people are just absolving terrible people of their deeds and not holding them accountable. When innocent people are targeted and murdered, that's on the murderers, not on the innocent peoples' government. The "well America did this and this" argument is like saying "look at what she was wearing"
The citizens of America seem to not give a fuck about the government doing things. After years or decades of the citizens not doing anything if a group wants to do something and it wakes the citizens up maybe they should've paid attention prior
Let's not forget class struggle in all of this debate. The citizens of America are also the victims. It is an uphill battle to learn the truth, especially in the US we are filled with pro-US propaganda. It is definitely our duty to be better and learn, but let's not imply that 9/11 is the fault of the every day American worker. I think it's safe to say that when Hasan says "America deserved 9/11" he's not talking about the working class of America, he's talking about the capitalist war mongers of America.
I agree. Especially back in the days before the internet. It would've taken way more effort to stay informed on foreign politics and how it's impacting different regions of the world. Now it somewhat feels like a lot of people would rather remain willifully ignorant of foreign affairs and the impacts they have.
True there’s a lot of different Americas, in this context we’re talking about America the state, not America the collection of citizens. It takes one ounce of critical thought to understand that, and often that’s asking too much
Never said it was moral logic but that's what blowback tends to be. You destabilize a region and it creates radicals. Kinda like hamas and israel. 70+ years of oppression from israel and now we have this
Bro that’s a ridiculous comparison. The point is it doesn’t matter what a woman is wearing nobody is entitled to treat her poorly or commit sexual violence against her, it’s just unjustified. You’re analogy is acting like Americas decades of imperialism, political oppression and active destabilization efforts across the world is the global scale equivalent of showing a dress that shows off your tits
My point is that a civillian is a civillian no matter what country they happen to live in. It's no more justified to sa a woman for what she's wearing than it is to murder someone for what country they're from. Just as it is 100% the SA'er's fault for enacting violence to someone, it is 100% a terrorist's/government's fault for enacting violence to civillians. Let's stop treating terrorists like idiot babies who we should just expect to murder civilians. civillians. not the people making the decisions that oppress their people. civillians.
I agree. Although the Syrian civil war played also played a big role in the expansion of isis territory. Unstable conditions and war is a good breeding ground for extremism. But to frame it as if the Iraq war is the sole cause for al-Baghdadi to become a hardcore salafist is simplistic. And when people start framing terrorists as fighting for justice it’s just insane and it only serves to delegitimize your own views. When it comes to the people who went trough the Iraq war my sympathy doesn’t lie with the ones massacring, raping and enslaving the people of their own country.
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Hasan has never said it was “the right thing that happened”. He’s always explained how Americas actions definitely played a part in forming the hatred of America that people always point to as the reason for 9/11. You don’t just hate random countries because they mind their own business and stay in their own regions. It’s not a justification for osama bin Laden or 9/11, it’s a political analysis. Why is that so hard for people to grasp?
his point is that it was largely blowback for america's decades-long belligerent foreign policy, which is true. regardless of what the frothing, sweaty horde of destinyheads that continue to brigade this subreddit might claim.
it's just a simple fact, one which the american state department overwhelmingly agrees with.
yes, bin laden had moral and religious gripes with 'decadent' america. largely this is thru the direct and indirect influence of Qutb via al-Zawahiri. I recommend Adam Curtis' The Power of Nightmares documentary series for anyone interested in learning more than they might otherwise from having daily chats with ChatGPT.
but to focus on these things and ignore the primary motivations is doing a massive disservice to america's future safety, not to mention basic rationality.
He literally said "America deserved 9/11" not "as a consequence of poor strategy we fomented an anti-american sentiment in the middle east that unfortunately led to an awful terrorist attack". I'll stick with his actual quote and not your cope thanks.
Bin Laden hated gay people and Jews and conveniently ignoring that to make his motivations more rational is disgusting.
Bin Laden deserved to get his face turned into kim chi by a navy seal and I hope he spends an eternity sucking a Jewish dick in hell.
since you're a brain-broken destinyhead you'll surely disagree but there's really nothing to take issue with his quote by itself without context. america, as a brutal, hegemonic terrorist state deserved retaliation for it's decades of monstrous behavior. so, yes, america deserved 9/11.
that doesn't mean the innocent victims of 9/11 deserved it.
Bin Laden hated gay people and Jews and conveniently ignoring that to make his motivations more rational is disgusting.
no one is ignoring it. experts agree it is at best secondary. ethan is the one ignoring shit.
Bin Laden deserved to get his face turned into kim chi by a navy seal and I hope he spends an eternity sucking a Jewish dick in hell.
how bold of you. no one is glazing bin laden, dumbfuck
edit: just realized i said it didn't need context and then i provided some, oops. i dunno maybe some things do require a modicum of context. obviously that's too much for a community that relies on out-of-context micro-clips to perform the ancient wikipedian dance of bad faith debate pervert argumentation, tho
that doesn't mean the innocent victims of 9/11 deserved it.
Aww see here is where the edgelord routine betrays you. You can't say that America deserved to be the victim of a terrorist attack that targeted civilians while saying that civilians didn't deserve to die dummy. The whole fucking point was to kill civilians, bud. This is why normal people don't support fucking terrorist attacks lmao. You are trash.
no one is ignoring it. experts agree it is at best secondary. ethan is the one ignoring shit.
This obfuscation by unnamed "experts" routine isn't going to work with me. Bin Laden was extremely antisemitic in his letter to America. His many grievances are centered around jewish control of capital. It's standard ZOD garbage.
how bold of you. no one is glazing bin laden, dumbfuck
So now it's wrong to "retaliate against decades of monstrous behaviour buzzword buzzword"? You should absolutely be glazing Bin Laden if you believe 9/11 was deserved.
I feel like most of Hasan fans would have thought this through more than you. Even Hasan pretended like he couldn't speak english when he realized how stupid it was. Better luck next time, champ.
indeed but what else is new? all these destructive little freaks know how to do is brigade and clip 4 second videos out of context.
it's really sad to see that they'll probably end up winning over this entire community since ethan loves a good glazing and doesn't care that destiny's malformed concept and practice of liberalism is centered around belligerency, racism and the weaponization of the unhinged audience he cultivates for that exact purpose
I agree the original tweet ignores that part, but a very big factor of him attacking the US was American imperialism in the middle east. Otherwise if he just hated jews, America is not a better target than Israel.
No, people do evil things because they’re evil. Also fucking hilarious all you people are Destiny fans and neoliberals. Other countries doing stuff is bad but if we do it, it’s ok.
America funded and supported the mujahideen, who eventually made up the ranks of alqueda, american companies also worked with and enriched the bin laden family, america had a hand at raising osama to a leadership position, and the attack was itself revenge against america for bombing and exploiting the region.
So without all these actions taken by america, there is no 9/11, when ppl say america caused 9/11 i believe this is why
My brother in Christ, years before 9/11 Bin laden was a "brave mujahideen" literally trained and funded by the CIA. You can't got around the world fucking up some random country in the middle east and expect not to fire back eventually. This is not a justification of what happened. It is simply stating the facts.
That first sentence is enough to show that these people are inherently disingenuous and so clouded by their own partisan judgement that they can’t just live like normal people.
No they are not. They are explaining a historical fact that Osama mostly attacked America because the saudis started hosting the American military. Nobody is saying he was right to do 9/11. Jesus Christ.
I know i sound like a conspircy person but as things have came out recently like tim pool i feel a little less silly saying it.
Since 2014 I have stated among people around me and my online places I visted that we are completely in a 2nd cold war.
Part of this cold war, a really big part, is this new kind of propaganda that is boosted by influencers and algorithms.
The thing with russia and tim pool is more proof but its not even the first example.
We know that Russia, china, iran and others fully support ANY information war that divides americans and creates hate toward each other.
I'm not saying this caused the palenstine/isreal rhetoric online or even the events, but anything that stokes the flames between actual people is pushed just for sake of division.
I believe this bin laden stuff, 9/11 stuff is further dividing rhetoric meant to get people mad and hate each other.
Radical lefties believe, quite justifiably in my opinion, that the entire foundation of American society that we find ourselves in is the result of American neo-imperialism. If you follow the arch of history, which is how many of them approach current issues, many of the issues we feel today are simply a result of poor decision making and American imperialism over the past 80 years. The border crisis is caused by our destabilization of South and Central America. Climate change is caused by decades of inaction. Things like Israel-Palestine is caused because the US cultivated a blank cheque, special status relationship with Israel, where we cannot even hardly criticize their behavior without pissing everyone off. The list goes on and on and they aren’t necessarily wrong for believing it or being pissed about it.
The radical leftists’ entire world view has been shot to hell with the dystopia that is modern America. There is no reason to have faith in our system and therefore, patriotism has been completely undermined. They therefore believe that it is just for America, as we know it now, to crumble and end, or at least they believe that in theory and rhetoric.
What I have been trying to convince those that I talk to about these things, is that historical progress is actually quite slow and it feels excruciatingly slow to the folks who are living it and that we need to be pragmatic and take whatever small or large victories we can, while not losing too much. They seem to fantasize about the end of America’s corporate oligarchy, without thinking about how incredibly shitty revolutions are to live through. I’m more of an “accept gradual change” kind of person, rather than an “accept that millions die in sudden change” kind of person.
Bin Laden literally listed the US constitution as one of the reasons for the attack. He said Americans had no right to live by laws they chose for themselves, and should live by sharia law from God instead.
Nobody even mentioned race until you suddenly thought it's OK to start dropping slurs.
If you genuinely believe that the heir of a billion dollar fortune was actually some kind of champion of the people and driven by anything other than hatred for Jews and liberalism you desperately need to touch some grass.
Nobody is saying that, they're saying the narrative that he did it/was able to mobilize others to do it because he "just hates our freedoms" is really braindead and reductive. Ever read Sun Tzu?
Using leftists as a general comment to refer to just tankies and the extreme left is wild. I thought Ethan had tried to steer away from attracting you monkey brained fans. But hey I haven't watched his content since it fell off a cliff like 7 years ago so I guess that's not the case.
It’s because the tankies are dog whistling. They’re saying “not all of his ideas were bad” to lead into “actually he was provoked into it”. it’s like how all of hasan friends get away with denying atrocities and openly supporting killing civilians, but hasan just says it’s a valid perspective while parroting a ton of their talking points to make them seem more sensible
It's the same thing as when they justified Putin's genocide in Ukraine "well you see NATO kinda forced his hand because they were expanding" "you know if they just signed the Minsk agreement" "you put him in a box what did you expect" "America did Iraq so you really shouldn't be talking" " Russia isn't going to invade this is just anti-russia American propaganda"
If you saw the chat at the time it was nothing but America bad so russia good. There was a reason why he had to put up that "Putin is bad" graphic after he was rightfully called out.
The thing that annoys me about this take is that it's not allowed to analyse why Russia invaded Ukraine or to imply in any way that maybe Western actions influenced the situation or helped enflame it or didn't help de-escalate it and you get accused of being pro-Putin or a supporter of genocide. You guys characterise anyone who is critical of western imperialism or US foreign policies in any way as pro-Putin/Assad/Gaddafi/Saddam or whoever the current villain is, it's lazy straw man shit.
What is there to analyze though? Russia's invasion of Ukraine is analogous to America's invasion of Iraq. A war criminal initiating an unjustified war of aggression to consolidate political and economic capital.
Who are you talking about lol is this one of those times where people say 'Tankies' and 'the far left' and they're literally just talking about some annoying dipshits on twitter. Some people are annoying and have unnuanced opinions, that doesn't mean they're representative of some kind of wider political movement.
that’s literally how all acts of terror occur. One side thinks that the other isn’t adhering to their principles and therefore commit vicious acts. Who are we fooling saying that these are valid opinions when all that does is allow these kinds of people to feel comfortable sharing these partisan arguments?
I think because Hasan believes that Americas choices led to the creation of Osama and hence 9/11, people automatically assume he thinks Osama is not the evil piece of shit he is. Unfortunately that’s just how people jump to things, and I think because it kinda started with almost a meme able “America deserved 911” comment, that’s how it went down.
He’s not the only one who says stuff like this but this is why in Politics you can’t say such serious shit in almost a rage bait or joking way. You leave the opinions of others to their imagination
God it’s so frustrating. I think these dip shits are equating Osama Bin Laden’s attack to the US to the justification of all Middle Eastern militia’s grievances and resistances to US interference. Bin Laden was a piece of shit aside from his sometimes just criticisms of America. He is in no way worth idolizing and he is a terrorist, a word I hardly use because it has completely lost all meaning.
Why in the fuck is there some revitalization of Osama’s character? It’s just as bad as people reconsidering George W. Bush as a respectable president because he paints and denounces Trump.
Because leftists are constantly being accused of terrorist sympathy for simply contextualising things. Yes terrorism is bad, yes Bin Laden was a bad person, but western imperialism is also a contributing factor to the ongoing issues in the Middle East.
Hasan has responsibility to at least call out his own mods, even if he's not her father and can't control what she does, she represents his community in many ways. it's disingenuous to pretend he has no influence or responsibility over what they do and say. if she did something you find morally questionable, I bet you'd be demanding Hasan fired her.
If I employed and signal boosted a Nazi, would you be sitting there saying that I'm "not their father" and that Nazis are "grown people"? Of course not, you would rightfully be upset that I'm boosting a Nazi.
Of course frogan is a grown person. Signal boosting and employing them (especially in a social setting) is a tacit approval of their views. She would be sitting at a single digit number of viewers if it wasn't for Hasan directly amplifying her platform, so it is a valid avenue of criticism.
It's even worse in his case specifically, because she and others were directly attacking Ethan for thinking Israel should exist (and being a Jew), and when Ethan asked him for help to get it to stop, he just went with a massive shoulder shrug.
Historical analysis is not the same as glazing someone. No one in any of these threads has justified osamas beliefs. People are saying that there is more historical context than just he hates freedom. Ethan either doesn’t understand this, or he is intentionally playing dumb to start drama.
Ethan doesn’t understand a lot of things and engages with people on Twitter and other platforms as if it’s been published in peer reviewed journals. Random people aren’t speaking for a majority- even if they are a moderator. That’s like if we took everything Ethan said as a representation of the whole crew… we know it’s not. Ethan needs to learn how to learn and engage in productive conversations.
The difference is that modern American policy isn’t perpetuating the existence of KKK beliefs. US foreign policy till this day absolutely still ferments resentment against the US and its proposed beliefs across the world. This sort of analysis is more relevant as it still holds weight in making positive changes in the real world today. As much as racism still exists within America, it’s nowhere to the extent where we have to be concerned about the KKK to the point where we need to seriously engage in self criticism like we do our foreign policy.
Take any American history course or speak to any professor or history student, and you will hear people contextualizing and explaining the reasoning behind the KKK's terrorism
I don’t think Ethan is saying Osama didn’t have his reasons. It’s just they’re not worthy of even mentioning at length since it all leads back to him being a piece of shit loser terrorist.
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Then it's kind of funny that Denimstv, someone that branded herself as "Hasan's waiting room", as one of his mods and also someone he hosts read through Bin Laden's manifesto and was uncritically praising him throughout it.
Ethan is purposefully being obtuse. Not even Frogan is defending Osama Bin Laden. Its the fact that Ethan wont shut up about “tankies” and constantly misinterpreting historical analysis with little push back.
This entire sub is purposefully obtuse when it comes to Hasan these days, Christ what a collection of the most annoying kind of liberals this place has become. Leftovers was too good for them
I think that is the point Ethan is missing. Nobody is handing it to bin Laden or saying he was justified.
Theyre saying that the US had a hand in causing the climate to end up in a terror attack, and if we don’t remember that - we can easily recreate that environment and have another one on our soil. If we always just say it’s because “they hate our freedoms” there is nothing we can learn in regards to foreign policy, and change how we act in the Middle East.
you can say that the US did a lot of things to cause anger in the middle east, but bin laden and his family largely did not experience the justifiable anger that dispossessed people in the region did. and the original tweet was not expressing regional anxieties, it was calling out bin laden’s motivation. which was extensively written on and is well known. he was a freak religious conservative. he had all the beliefs that come alongside being a freak religious conservative - subjugation of women, hatred of gay people, hatred secular societies, blame to jews for a proliferation of secular societies, etc etc.
The tweet could have been more nuanced and explained about Bin Laden took advantage of that anger in the region towards the US (starting with Reagan arming the mujahideen in Operation Cyclone )- and this is where I think people want to make sure that everyone understands the context of how the US had a heavy hand in the attacks, and it wasnt purely anger towards our freedoms.
I absolutely agree that he was a religious maniac that was antisemitic, homophobic, etc.
I can. He said when his friend was justifying killing babies “well there are baby’s in the settlements” then argued it was a valid perspective to kill “settlers”(meaning any Israeli)
Clip? Don’t remember him ever saying killing Israelis or settlers is valid
Edit. Nvm it’s a destiny fan. Prob the most disingenuous framing and no link. The one way hatred with that fan base is insane. Barely ever hear Hasan fans speaking about destiny but any negative thread about Hasan summons y’all
Edit 2. Pls watch the link this guy sent. 21.05. Hasan says he disagrees with the take and never said it was a valid perspective. disingenuous and malicious framing by the comment above .
Ofc I’m right about the destiny fan disingenuous framing. He literally says at 21.05 he does not agree with that.
He never said it was a valid perspective but said he understands it. I can understand all perspectives and agree with none. I can understand Hamas and Israel’s perspective tho I agree with neither. What a crazy lie from u
Literally not only putting words in his mouth but representing them as the opposite.
Also send the original next time so I don’t gotta listen to destiny complain through most of it.
Okay you admit he just thinks it’s okay that his friends think it’s good to kill babies? My entire point? He’s still friends with this person btw. Never condemned him.
Edit: if my friend said it was okay to kill babies, my response wouldn’t be “that’s some people’s perspective”(ie a valid perspective) sorry I was completely correct but I chose the wrong words apparently
Edit 2: you can literally start this section and see hasan happily refer to this person as his friend even though they’re laughing about how good it is to murder civilians. I never said hasan agreed with it. Though he obviously does the way he plays defense for baby murderers
Holy shit. He said he disagreed. The balls to try to respond after claiming Hasan said the complete opposite of the bullshit you said.
Ethan is friends with steiny. Is Ethan a MAGA supporter? Is destiny a MAGA supporter? Why haven’t they condemned people who don’t care about women’s rights and support a racist party.
Shameless behavior but expected. Your whole point was misrepresentation. Hasan lives rent free in ur minds. Don’t watch him that’s fine but blatantly lying then doubling down is pathetic. Have some substance and pride
He said it was a valid perspective but that he didn’t agree. You can just look up hasan baby settler on YouTube and it’ll come up. This isn’t hidden information
Edit: he literally won’t even try to find the truth, you can find hasan fans all over this thread refusing to look into anything and announcing that they’re correct anyway.
Yet we can call right wingers racist without them directly saying they are. When hasan defends multiple of his friends for being pro Hamas and pro killing Israeli civilians we’re allowed to stop taking him at his word
Yeah - Ethan calling out the ridiculousness of people glorifying Osama bin Laden makes sense.
People with large internet followings have tons of weirdo psycho idiots, no matter how much you prune the community. H3 has them, and holding Ethan personally accountable for every weird thing they do is weird. Hasan certainly has them too, and I think it's equally weird to make every poor interaction some kind of proxy for Hasan directly.
Ethan being frustrated makes sense too. I'm just not sure why either community is taking up arms for their favorite content creator here. Let them have their discourse, if there even really is any here.
Ultimately they create content for different reasons and have different motivations for doing what they do. This leads to natural conflict. That's okay.
I think we could all do with letting people have their feelings and checking in with ourselves about our own before getting too in our heads and rageposting
yeah and then in literally the next breath... america bad, deserved 9/11, osama was probably right, *mental retardation gymastics intensifies*, putin did nothing wrong, ukraine deserved it too, NATO bad, OMG GENOSICDEEEE
Are you stupid? He raised a crap ton of money for ukraine and has stood by Ukraine for the whole War. He's said over and over again that Osama was wrong, you're just making stuff up. And there is a genocide going on
It’s not true. He doesn’t support arming Ukraine so they can expel the invaders and he said Ukraine can cry him a river bitch about Crimea being annexed.
Raising money for Ukraine is great but it doesnt absolve you from any criticism, wierd how leftist understand this concept when it comes to millionairs donating to just couses but when their favourite milionair does the same they forget their analasys. Hasan still spreads pro russian talking points said numerous times that he supports russian anexation of Crimea platforms pro russian people while the most pro ukraine guest on his stream was fucking Grimes.
He defended hakim for saying it’s okay to murder settlers(all Israelis) Ethan said but there’s baby’s, and hasan said there are baby’s in the settlements. Defending your friend who said it was okay to murder baby’s is bad
Not just that but the fact he’s friends with people who also believe this insane tankie stuff. Like hasan wouldn’t condemn hakim for saying it was okay to kill “settlers” after 10/7
Ethan's point is that Hasan keeps handwaving Frogan's behavior and hasn't disavowed her for her divisive rhetoric and nigh-slanderous statements against people like Ethan and Hila
They've already joked on Leftovers about Hasan's "America deserved 9/11" comment, and Hasan clarified he meant the government, not the people
The main ossue here is Frogan and other members of Hasan's community that he doesn't reign in or disavow
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u/ribbonskirt 6d ago
Hasan has literally said on multiple occasions that Osama bin laden was horrible and should not be idolized by anybody