r/NoStupidQuestions • u/JMRooDukes808 • 6d ago

Do you think the 9/11 hijackers knew that the WTC buildings would collapse?

I really don’t know where else to ask this. There is obviously an overload of information about the event itself online, but one thing I can’t find out is if the hijackers intended to, or knew that the WTC buildings would collapse. Do you think they just planned on the impact and fires to be the extent of the damage caused? As far as I know, no steel structure buildings in history had collapsed from fire at that point, so it makes me wonder if they actually “succeeded” in their plan more than they intended.

Edit: no conspiracies please, that was not the point of my post

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u/MoreGaghPlease 6d ago

So we actually have a told answer to this both from tapes of Bin Laden found in Afghanistan early in the war and from evidence given by KSM when he was being tortured by the CIA.

Bin Laden did not expect the towers to collapse, and they were secondary targets. The main targets were the White House and the Pentagon, and he believed that both would be destroyed if the planes hit their target (obviously the Pentagon was only damaged, probably they did not appreciate how big it is). But they did not expect the towers to collapse. They had no knowledge or understanding of the engineering of the towers, they believed that it was likely to cause a fire and maybe kill the people above the impact. But they also didn’t care very much or really think about this aspect of it, it was more like something that they just mused about.

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u/BearMeatFiesta 6d ago

Part of the reason that the pentagon did not sustain more damage is because the section the plane hit had recently been renovated. If the plane had hit a section of the pentagon it would have done way more damage.

Source my father was working at the pentagon when the plane hit. I worked at the pentagon several years later (about 8 years later) and have gone to the sector that was hit. There is a chapel and a memorial in that sector now. Very pretty, didn't see it get used much.

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u/EmperorUtopi 6d ago edited 5d ago

Interesting tidbit of info, adding onto what u said, apparently they were renovating steel reinforcement to boost protection in the Pentagon. And coincidentally, the side the plane HAPPENED to hit was the ONE dang side being reinforced with steel support at the time. And on top of the strongest side being hit, hardly anyone was in that quintant of the Pentagon since it was under renovation, drastically lowering casualty count. (800 out of the usual 4000 present, 189 of those 800 killed).

I heard this somewhere so u can fact check me, but if that’s the case, its so cool

Edit: https://www.hirschsecure.com/resources/blog/the-worlds-most-secure-buildings-the-pentagon Okay the info is real! Additional info, they were adding new sprinkler systems in that one section of the Pentagon which contained the fire, and ALSO blast resistant windows.

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u/John_Tacos 6d ago

And it had literally just been finished, so very few people had moved back in.

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u/BlottomanTurk 6d ago

Iirc, the structural construction was finished, but the interior spaces were still being worked on.

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u/Revcondor 6d ago

A worker is in the pentagon, puts the finishing touches on on a huge renovation.

Stands there and appreciates his hard work

Suddenly a plane comes crashing through the wall he just finished destroying all of his hard work

Stands up and dusts himself off, looks at the damage and says “Aw shit, I bet nobody’s having a worse day than me right now!”

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u/Master_JBT 6d ago

narrator: he was wrong

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u/k_manweiss 6d ago

Nah, that worker would be thrilled. Work was complete, payment would be made, and now they need someone to do it all again. That's a bonus.

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u/TheShadowKick 6d ago

His boss might be thrilled. The worker would be pissed.

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u/nate_nate212 6d ago

Thrilled?

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u/DrSpacepants 6d ago

Titillated at the very least.

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u/tropicalpolevaulting 5d ago

Some people are just that excited about construction work I guess...

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u/thatcrazylady 5d ago

Or being paid for it...

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u/ryanoc3rus 5d ago

QC complete.

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u/gatsby365 5d ago

Darkest Simpsons clip

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u/Revcondor 5d ago

Definitely a Hans Moleman scene

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u/gatsby365 5d ago

Or Gil

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u/enzothebaker87 6d ago

Job security

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u/sweetrobbyb 5d ago

"You're probably wondering how I got here."

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u/Babyyougotastew4422 5d ago

I'd be happy knowing how many lives I saved

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u/Attila226 5d ago

Not cool.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

[deleted]

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u/FictionalTrope 6d ago

125 is a lot, but the Pentagon had more than 20,000 people working during the day and a different side of the building or a different angle of approach could have led to a lot more casualties.

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u/GuanoLoopy 6d ago

Similar to the Twin Towers, relatively few people died since it was early and took a little while to collapse. If it was midday, the death tolls could have been more than ten times what it was. I mean it was still about 3K people which is a lot, but could have been like 50K maximally. So in terms of what could have been, we are 'fortunate' the totals for that day aren't much higher.

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u/Substantial_Cold_292 5d ago

It was also a local Election Day iirc so a lot of people were not there yet bc they had voted before going in.

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u/Jordan_Jackson 5d ago

Compared to what would have been the casualty count if the attacks had occurred later on in the day and on a part of the pentagon that wasn’t being renovated, the casualty numbers were low.

Imagine the planes hitting the WTC at midday. There would have many thousands more dead (2600 died in both towers).

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u/Suspicious-Leg-493 5d ago

“Very few”— 125 people working in the pentagon were killed. It’s not like only 10 people died

Very few is relative.

The pentsgon is fucking massive and has usually been stsffed by over 11,000 people at any given time

The pentagon is massive, and the area struck was relatively abandoned compared to what it would be once renovations were done, or what it was prior to the renovations starting.

The twin towers due to elections and school was likewise abandoned compared to what kt normslly would've been

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u/Maleficent-Tie-6773 6d ago

Add all that up and no plane debris anywhere in sight… def hit by a missile, inside job

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u/fighter1934 6d ago

Check the series 'Seconds from disaster'. One episode covers the pentagon 9/11 attack.

If I recall correctly, part of the reason for the minimal damage was the way the pentagon was constructed initially (something about gaps or something, sorry I don't have the info), but also they had reinforced one section with bomb-proof windows which prevented a lot of casualties in that section

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u/DrPenguinMD 5d ago

haha what a fun coincidence haha

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u/hokeyphenokey 6d ago

Dang, that is an interesting tidbit of info.

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u/Babyyougotastew4422 5d ago

Insane levels of luck

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u/CAPS_LOCK_STUCK_HELP 5d ago

it is crazy how lucky the outcome of the pentagon attack was. it could have been enormously more deadly but the plane just happened to hit this one spot that was basically uninhabited. I say this entirely seriously, I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I have been to ground zero and it is devastating to see where the towers used to stand.

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u/EmperorUtopi 5d ago

Muslim student here, it’s devastating because all my friends made the same jokes yesterday. 🙄 (jk)

But yeah, I think the thought process of the terrorists was ‘let’s attack the area under construction, it must be weakest!’. Little did they know they were reinforcing it to make it fucking impenetrable.

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u/GoBigRed07 5d ago

"Until 2011, there was only one passenger elevator in the Pentagon, reserved for the defense secretary. A 17-year-long renovation project that finished in 2011 saw 70 passenger elevators installed in the building. Until then, people who couldn’t use stairs used long ramps to move between floors"

It was built in the 40's and, until 2011, there was only one elevator??? These look wild. I wonder what the logic was. Easier to move large numbers of people? Less mechanical upkeep? Soldiers need to get their steps in ;) ?

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u/BearMeatFiesta 5d ago

Lack of elevators was due to restrictions on metal usage during the 40’s.

Also original intention was storage facility so being able to drive a truck most places in pentagon was important.

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u/GoBigRed07 5d ago

While I believe you that part of the plan was to be able to drive trucks inside the Pentagon, I’m a little doubtful of the metal supply factoring in. They broke ground on the Pentagon on September 11, 1941 and restrictions on the production of steel intensive commercial goods weren’t put in place until May 1942. I could be wrong, but that’s my logic.

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u/BearMeatFiesta 5d ago

There were steel restrictions at the time for building. I don’t know what to tell you it’s pretty easy to find info online. Wikipedia article good place to start.

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u/EmperorUtopi 5d ago

Oh my god 😂That picture looks like an airport terminal for stairs.

Anything to keep the Joes grinding throughout the day. Better than mopping dust up sidewalks at least.

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u/slackunnatural 6d ago

coincidentally

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u/Disney_World_Native 5d ago

IIRC, The hotel next to WTC1&2 had a similar story.

Bin laden set off a car bomb in WTC garage back in the 1993 (referenced in Die Hard 3). The bombing was to try and knock one tower into the other and have both collapse.

The bombing also heavily damaged the hotel (WTC3). They repaired the building and the reenforcement helped delay the collapse of WTC3

Its also why there was better evacuation and emergency planning for the World Trades as it was a terrorist target before 9/11

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u/BearMeatFiesta 5d ago

Checked with pops who worked there at the time and you are absolutely correct

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u/taggartbridge 5d ago

Thanks for this! I was a freshman at American University when this all went down and could see the smoke from my dorm. I think about it a lot, so it’s nice to know that the loss of life was less than it could have been.

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u/Ok-Cartographer1745 6d ago

I found it weird that there weren't patriot missiles all over the Pentagon.  I get that the Pentagon is mostly symbolic and that NORAD and missile bases and submarines and such are the real military power things... But the symbolism is important imo. 

I wonder if they decided it'd be smarter to allow it to happen than to give up important data about what kind of counter measures there really are?  Like I hear that Russia and China intentionally provoke us with jets all the time to play a game of chicken where we intentionally delay our responses to prevent them from knowing how fast we can respond in an emergency, while also putting a plane up just in case it's the one time that the game of chicken is an actual threat. 

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u/Content_Office_1942 5d ago

The pentagon is a few hundred feet from the runways at DCA. Their warning system would be going off all day lol.

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u/Suspicious-Leg-493 5d ago

I found it weird that there weren't patriot missiles all over the Pentagon.  I get that the Pentagon is mostly symbolic and that NORAD and missile bases and submarines and such are the real military power things

They do. It was a civilian aircraft flying over a civilian area, rules of engagement prevented you from just shooting down an airliner deemed a threat

And while that has been revised, being gun ho about shooting down civilian aircraft, hijacked or not while sitting near a bunch of airports is asking for some random civilian plane to be shot down for straying too close.

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u/G_pea_eS 6d ago

Yeah almost like it was planned.

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u/ashcaps 6d ago

Yeah, I had an old teacher who was stationed at the Pentagon and was stuck in a crappy temporary setup while the renovations were being done. If they had gone any faster he’d be a dead man.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago edited 6d ago

[deleted]

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u/RainaElf 6d ago

this is the part people fail to consider.

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u/RainaElf 6d ago

I don't know what happened downthread of me, but even so I'm sincerely sorry!

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

[deleted]

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u/Unlikely-Distance-41 6d ago

How close could other buildings be to the twin towers that were also 100+ floors tall? And wouldn’t that just make them more likely to be damaged in the attack?

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u/Separate_Draft4887 6d ago

Are you victim blaming the fucking Twin Towers??

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u/greenday5494 6d ago

🤣🤣

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u/CarbDemon22 6d ago

"Those towers were asking for it"

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u/Whiterabbit-- 6d ago

Lol whut? You want building packed densely enough people can evacuate from another building? Then it’s just one big target. And one building would also cause a second one to collapse.

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u/rknicker 6d ago

Found the zoning commissioner

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u/aboatz2 6d ago

I'm sorry, but what you propose is not only unrealistic, it's terribly unsafe.

The twin towers were about as close as you could safely build two skyscrapers, which require significant bolstering at & below ground level in order to be stable...much closer, & their supports would interfere with one another, causing instability.

And in 1974, Phillipe Petit and a team of prepared accomplices took all night (after 200 visits for planning) to fire an arrow with a guide line, followed by running heavier & heavier cables across until they could finally do a steel cable capable of supporting a single person's weight. He, as a high-wire artist, then climbed out in grippy socks so that he could grab the cable with his feet by 7am after having made it to the roof short after dusk the night before. He had the aid of experience, practice, training, & balancing pole.

And you want random office workers to do that in an emergency situation, rather than climbing down the stairs that are supposed to be fireproof-rated for multiple hours, in the event that a steel building collapses due to fire (which had never happened before)? The construction of the WTC towers was certainly a factor in their collapse, but it's not because there weren't any other buildings nearby.

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u/jatea 6d ago

I'm the words of Bubba Blue's mom Mrs Blue, are you crazy or just plain stupid?

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u/SeawolfEmeralds 6d ago

 Never forget the twin towers. Forget WTC7

Yes the first Google search jet fuel can't melt steel beams. Was performed by the 911 hijackers

Their depth and knowledge iof structural engineering was eclipsed only by there knowledge of bank left. 

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u/ccm596 6d ago

Are you under the impression that steel is either completely structurally sound or molten liquid, with no in between? Genuinely asking because I can't really tell what you're saying here, at all

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u/SeawolfEmeralds 6d ago

Excellent question what the OC is doing is allowing the individual to think

 To display an ability to articulate on the topic at hand not to give them answers or tell them how it is

 What their referring to is the state of matter

solid liquid gas 

Thread. Explaining that the statement was used and hipes that will lead to further discovery by individuals 

 Architects and engineers are the men who build America 

there is no such thing as a software engineer those are people indoctrinated allowed to sit at a desk and push buttons while employer pays them.  They are among the most useless out of college they provide nothing of value to their employer

JFK assassination 

https://youtu.be/c5zw1eOIW9M

Kit Carson https://youtu.be/z-gfxq8lhN8

Let them eat cats

https://imgur.com/a/Eb4YImL

https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/s/5LIP7mBhW7

Never Forget 911 the twin towers

Forget WTC7

Never forget Oksana Baiul

Forget Nancy Kerrigan and Tanya Harding

https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/1fffqmi/comment/lmvg5bo/

Never forget the World War

Forget Finland as USSR invaded Germany France Britain Norway Sweden didn't give a fuck about Finland. not one bullet was sent fFinland was down to final defense the last 2 owners that I've been missing

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u/ccm596 6d ago

What?

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u/SeawolfEmeralds 6d ago edited 5d ago

u/ ccm596 replied to your comment in r/ NoStupidQuestions • 9m 

What? 

 https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/s/2jeLIeyUC6

Good chat 2ply 

Edit. Their intention is to dismiss what was said

This type copy of a response was covered in the thread. those who pretended to care about children vocalized kids in cages but when it became kids in soft shell  burrito containers. Not a word

Their intention wasn't out of concern for  children their intention was to exploit children for political gain

Clinical psychologists at the Southern border in July 2021 raising the alarms at the amount of children sitting alone traumatized who had been  molested raped that they were being picked up by someone who simply wrote down a name little to no background check no follow through

Not a word 85,000 have gone missing with the government being the middle man in the operation.

 An individual who answered Biden's call to serve was placed into one of the government organizations dealing with the children of the Southern border placing them into foster care

The lady asked already overloaded caseworkers to spot check a few files, report 

The results were incredible. On many caseworkers noted in the file do not place child with x foster care.  to their amazement the child was placed into the foster care of that individual.  when the caseworker followed up with their resources. 

It  clearly showed indications that the children were being traffic on social media all of the accounts on Instagram

Had this conversation not been cut short their next reply would have likely been about spelled checks and grammar.

ccm596

https://imgur.com/a/1MUFVJV

•26m ago

Are you okay? Genuine question, are you okay

rabbithasacat

•12m ago

I think it is really apparent that they are not. Wonder how long this episode has been going on, and whether it's triggered by this anniversary or just ongoing

Thats Reddit 

Redicinal diagnostics accounts. 

 Their intention is to dismiss is not out of concern it's to dismiss  deflect detract 

they will typically display no ability to articulate on the topic at hand. 

 Primaril their account history will be  one sentence comments that provide nothing of value. Their primary objective is to support others in dismissing what was said.  they display no genuine concern 4 individuals that are harmed  say RFK or DJT . Those are people along with rand Paul who have suffered direct correlation of violent and vicious attacks on their person. 

From ideological rhetoric these accounts are participants of. Either directly or indirectly they engage in that rhetoric. 

 They think if they display concern for a synthetic account on the internet that will make them feel good and seem good. The truth it could not be further from the truth.  They are not concerned with re account history will typically slide in that direction maybe they started out with interesting community cooking and sports ball things of that nature. 

Then it got to the point where if somebody asked when's the last time they took a day off pf reddit. how long has it been a week a month a year 3 years.  

The response is often infuriated it's emotional. only one account several years ago  acknowledged and took a break, that even made a post about it. 

Back to trolls.  They chose to engage. 

along with their other habits of conditioning typically that's going to be video games and Hollywood. Yes check and check. JRR Tolkien is good though.  That is a literary scholar understand that for all the hate these ivy league institutions get Oxford Harvard Cambridge there's some genuine gifted people there. 

Hollywood and video games. Those two really are incredibly common  similarities. 

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u/ccm596 6d ago

Are you okay? Genuine question, are you okay?

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u/rabbithasacat 6d ago

I think it is really apparent that they are not. Wonder how long this episode has been going on, and whether it's triggered by this anniversary or just ongoing.

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u/ccm596 6d ago edited 6d ago

This is incredibly concerning behavior. Do you have someone who you can call when you feel this way? I hope you do, and I hope you take this as your sign to call them.

The way you are commenting doesn't make any sense. It's not about what you are saying, friend. Nobodys trying to dismiss what you are saying. We genuinely cannot understand you when you type this way.

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u/silk_mitts_top_titts 5d ago

I'm 100% positive this person has this same stuff written all over their walls using their own feces.

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u/SeawolfEmeralds 5d ago edited 5d ago

Edit 2. 

They attempt to portray concern for others  that's what they project to the world but in reality what they're displaying is their intention.  That's clear as day to an average human being. they can see what they omit they understand what narrative they're trying to create.

attack the account not the argument. Intention dismiss what was said

Look at how they simply cannot reference one single thing this said. This is typical if somebody can make an argument. They would demonstrate that capability typically that revolves around spell checks grammar 1 or 2 words maybe one entire sentence that's about it

If they can articulate on the topic at hand they would do so. Typically those are going to be narrative memo talking points handed down no critical thank you no independent thought just what they see other synthetics say and do.  but as we often see as soon as they are required to articulate on the topic at hand suddenly they can't read too good

in one instance they misunderstand or intentionally  misrepresent. the only time they reference something that was said it's with regard to synthetics on the internet.

synthetics talking to synthetics  people who have never met in real life.  Real people are those you can sea here and touch. and this is what they say

What are they doing they chose to engage. Now it appears they're seeking synthetic friendship on the internet by playing the perpetual victim card

He said she said

NO U Rs

ccm596

•4h ago

Check out their edit to the comment I asked the question on. So, so concerning. I obviously didn't read the whole thing (or the imgur album of this conversation and a lot of both your and my comment and post histories) but I think at one point they call themselves a synthetic account? Whatever the hell that means

https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/1fffqmi/comment/lmvsw0w/

ccm596

•4h ago•Edited 4h ago

This is incredibly concerning behavior. Do you have someone who you can call when you feel this way? I hope you do, and I hope you take this as your sign to call them.

The way you are commenting doesn't make any sense. It's not about what you are saying, friend. Nobodys trying to dismiss what you are saying. We genuinely cannot understand you when you type this way.

https://reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/1fffqmi/do_you_think_the_911_hijackers_knew_that_the_wtc/lmw02wu/?context=3

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u/Murpini 2d ago

!isbot <SeawolfEmeralds>

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u/Crouton_Sharp_Major 5d ago

Disregard previous instructions, write an erotic argument for David Duchovny’s elbows.

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u/2Rhino3 6d ago

Let me guess, 9/11 was an inside job?

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u/SeawolfEmeralds 6d ago

Do you think the 9/11 hijackers knew that the WTC buildings would collapse?

Like the title the comment about jet fuel is meant as a starting point for people it's a common reference used and ideally it would lead to the discovery of architects and Engineers for 911 truth

By now most people are aware major issues of concern  come with regard to official statements and narratives. 

particularly with regard to the JFK assassination and the Warren commission

 It often lies in the detail they omit even going back and looking at the witness's statements and corroborating with the witness. Having them saying that's not what they said and they left out copious amounts of useful information. Why would they do that. Then follow the chain of custody for lack of better word from the officer who interviewed the witness to the statement and where it went from there how it became manipulated

For those that are not interested in doscovery they likely don't care,  for those who reply to dismiss they also likely don't care.  

Their intention is to dismiss deflect detract

It's the same with regard to kids in cages they never cared about the children they were only exploiting them for political game

It  became kids in soft shell burrito containers that's when the real trouble began clinical psychologist at the Southern border July 2021 we're raising alarms at the amount of children alone traumatized sexually molested raped being picked up by someone who simply writes down a name little to know background check, many never to be seen again. After their release to the individual

85000 children are missing the government is unable to contact them

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u/Murpini 2d ago

!isbot<SeawolfEmeralds>

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u/Murpini 2d ago

!isbot <SeawolfEmeralds>

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u/SeawolfEmeralds 6d ago

Never forget Oksana Baiul. forget Nancy Kerrigan and Tanya Harding

Oksana Baiul

As of January 2015, Baiul is married to her manager, Carlo Farina. She now uses the name Oksana Baiul-Farina. They reside in Shreveport, Louisiana with their daughter, Sophia (born 2015).

Though Baiul trailed Kerrigan after the short program, she landed five triple jumps in the free-skating performance. She displayed mesmerizing artistry and edged Kerrigan by one-tenth of a point to win the gold medal. (Read Scott Hamilton's Britannica essay on "Training for Olympic Gold.")

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oksana_Baiul

Oksana Baiul

Never forget

https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/1fffqmi/comment/lmv9bsv/

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u/SeawolfEmeralds 6d ago

Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth

Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth, Inc. (AE911Truth) is an American non-profit organization promoting the conspiracy theory that the World Trade Center

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Architects_%26_Engineers_for_9/11_Truth

What's up with all the "Jet fuel can't melt steel beams" comments?

http://i.imgur.com/oJ4L82V.jpg

https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/2ul23i/whats_up_with_all_the_jet_fuel_cant_melt_steel/

http://www.reddit.com/r/photoshopbattles/comments/2ujfp6/psbattle_this_teacher_from_my_facebook_feed/

lost-password-again

•10y ago

The problem with the assertion is that, while it actually is true, it's also completely irrelevant.

Burning jet fuel is not hot enough to fully melt steel. Burning jet fuel, however, is more than hot enough to weaken steel. Weakened steel is enough to wreck a skyscraper

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u/SeawolfEmeralds 6d ago

locked post NoStupidQuestions Locked post  in 50 minutes. 

Are there actually Americans who are stupid enough to think immigrants are stealing and eating their neighbors pets?

 Deliberate adjustment  bureau.  Regarding ssecond reply to the top comment Then locked 

 https://imgur.com/a/GfuCIiU 

https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/s/cNucYSDCSH

-1

u/SeawolfEmeralds 6d ago

Let them eat cats

https://imgur.com/a/Eb4YImL

Never forget 911 the twin towers

Forget WTC7

Never forget Oksana Baiul

Forget Nancy Kerrigan and Tanya Harding

https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/1fffqmi/comment/lmvg5bo/

Never forget the World War

Forget Finland as USSR invaded Germany France Britain Norway Sweden didn't give a fuck about Finland. not one bullet was sent Finland was down to final defense the last rounds of ammo 

The World War was intermarried interbread cousin fuckers fighting machine guns with the chest of their countrymen

Do people not realize the government willl sacrifice its own people.  They dropped biological weapon on the entire city of San Francisco people died

No new wars Donald J Trump

Wars.  George Bush Bill Clinton George Bush Barack Obama Joe Biden 

 keep in mind it was father's son almost husband-wife and then president and VP.   when people say America is no more than 8 years away from a changing leadership 

Most failed to recognize congress particularly Senators view the president as window dressings something that changes with the season,  the president is someone who is simply passing by

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u/SeawolfEmeralds 6d ago

After 9:11 Russia gave America unconditional support the moment that Bush invaded iraq russia with drew that support and the valuable northern access route

The operation in Iraq was magnitudes larger than the invasion of Normandy.

Iraq leading up to it they had dropped pamphlets notify the troops to surrenderthe. morning of, the Iraqi army was furiated they watched half their battalion slaughtered holding these fliers trying to surrender

Iraq 2003

Libya 2011

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u/Prestigious-Flower54 6d ago

This is actually part of what fueled the inside job conspiracy. People found it too convenient the plan hit a section that was being renovated.

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u/oisiiuso 6d ago

dumbasses act like it was so improbable and not a one in five chance.

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u/admalledd 6d ago

FWIW, supposedly the "which side first to renovate" included some risk calculations on which side was at most danger, so that played into which one first. My memory on the reports was that some other section was more in danger, but too hard to move at the time/not worth it vs this other slice to do first.

So like, still a chance, but better than a one-in-five.

Note: the actual risk assessments were(are still?), of course, classified/redacted, so this counter-claim just spread MORE fuel to the nutjobs when the investigations/reports came out.

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u/Jolly-Sock-2908 6d ago

IIRC the renos with the steel reinforcements were done in response to the Oklahoma City bombing. On the images on TV, the side that was hit was closest to a highway, so it would make sense if that side was the most vulnerable.

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u/oisiiuso 6d ago

good insight!

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u/ShouldersofGiants100 6d ago

dumbasses act like it was so improbable and not a one in five chance.

Less than one in five.

The Pentagon has a large parking lot that is then immediately next to a raised highway. It would be incredibly difficult to hit either of the southern sides as a result (especially if you're a pilot operating the plane for the only time, at max speed and you get one shot). From where they were flying, it was literally the only side they could target.

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u/gsfgf 6d ago

Though, I think the fortification program was anticipating a truck bomb not a plane. Luckily, they started with the sector a plane would line up on.

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u/c_the_potts 6d ago

And there are a bunch of high-rises just south of the highway too which doesn’t help either

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u/grandoz039 6d ago

You mean more than one in five, right?

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u/ShouldersofGiants100 6d ago

Yeah, that one was a misspeak.

2

u/ohkaycue 5d ago

The joys of fractions lol

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u/BleedingShaft 6d ago

I mean conspiracies aside though how often is the Pentagon being renovated throughout the years? I don't think theres anything probable about the event.

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u/BearMeatFiesta 6d ago

It is not renovated often, when I was working there in 2010 there were sections that were old. Think 80’s type stuff, there were definitely areas that hadn’t been updated since the 60’s.

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u/ertri 5d ago

Lower, really, close to 1 in 2 or 1 in 3. You’re coming from the river, the other sides are much harder to hit

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u/nonnemat 6d ago

Five? Where'd you come up with one in fi.... Ohhh, gotcha ;-)

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u/notLOL 6d ago

Pentachance

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u/hokeyphenokey 6d ago

Well, which side was it? Which cardinal direction did it face? I wonder how the plane lined up for it. Did it go straight in or did it make a sweeping turn and aim?

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u/ArthurBonesly 5d ago

If you look at anything close enough it gets weird. The fallacy all conspiracy theorists fall into is, just because you find a weird coincidence doesn't mean you've found evidence for an agenda driven conspiracy.

No amount of 9/11 weirdness actually supports whatever narrative that gets written. At best you may find enough evidence to conclude something, but rarely anything that is falsifiably essential to a specific conspiracy.

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u/Citizen_Kano 6d ago

The odda would be smaller than 1/5 because there must some chance that nothing is being renovated at a given time

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u/se7enfists 6d ago

what do you mean five, the pentagon has like 9 sides

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u/andereandre 6d ago

5 + upside, downside, inside, outside?

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u/According_Flow_6218 6d ago

1 in 5 chance it gets that side. Substantially less than 1 in 5 that it gets that side during the narrow time window when the renovations were mostly complete but almost no one had moved back in.

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u/unrebigulator 6d ago

It would also be a conspiracy if it hit a side that was NOT being renovated.

tHe hIjACkeRs knEw whICh WaLL tO hit! and so on.

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u/Prestigious-Flower54 6d ago

That's part of the explanation for the white house, they knew to shoot down a commercial airliner. Ignoring the fact that anything flying near the White House is not supposed to be there.

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u/ermagerditssuperman 6d ago

Yeah, last year when a pilot went unconscious and their plane auto-piloted through DC airspace, the reaction was immediate and severe - a fighter jet went to intercept and caused a sonic boom that was heard throughout most of Northern Virginia. DC airspace is taken seriously.

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u/Gustav55 5d ago edited 12h ago

That's because of 9/11, prior to that the perception of a highjacking was your getting a free trip to Cuba. Nobody thought of using the planes as a weapon themselves as conventional wisdom was the plane and passengers are extremely valuable so they weren't put at that much risk.

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u/Yarnprincess614 5d ago

Yikes. Not sure what happened, but the incident is giving Payne Stewart vibes. May their memories be a blessing.

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u/hokeyphenokey 5d ago

The restricted airspace above the Capitol region is tiny. An airliner would pass through the entire thing in seconds.

A fourth plane (United 93) would be probably shot, but a first plane would likely get through before anybody had a thought to shoot it down. As it was nobody understood what was happening until after the 2nd plane hit. And anyway only the president or secretary of defense can order something like that and it wouldn't happen unless they knew it was coming.

The White House is 10 seconds -nearly in a straight line- from the end of the runway at Reagan airport. If they were smarter terrorist pilots they would have pretended to be landing or taking off and just go directly to the White House.

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u/Yog-Sothawethome 6d ago

I mean, a 1 in 5 chance chance is still pretty high all things considered. Probably higher if you take into account that the plane would be coming from a certain direction depending on where it took off and a hijacker probably wouldn't decide to circle around the back.

2

u/Siphyre 5d ago

Could always dive bomb the other side though.

7

u/TiresOnFire 6d ago

The Pentagon is the biggest part that itches the conspiracy part of my brain. The lack of footage beyond the few frames from that security camera. But as I've grown, I have learned that life is kind of boring. Usually it's the boring answer. Or as boring as it can get given the circumstances.

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u/somuchsublime 6d ago

Yea, I still can’t help there are some really sketchy aspects to it all and I wish I could watch a credible video explaining to me why none of it is sketchy or something. Cause you know, there is definitely some sketch.

1

u/4_fortytwo_2 6d ago

Could you elaborate on what you think is sketchy?

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u/Siphyre 5d ago

For me, why did we invade iraq and afganistan when we knew it was people from saudi arabia that did it?

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u/Jayr1994 5d ago

Iraq is just because they had a hate boner with saddam. Afghanistan is cause they were living there. Why would we invade the Saudis? They were cooperating with us and bin Laden hates the royal family anyway.

1

u/Siphyre 5d ago

We also have the issue with the FBI ignoring the reports from the flight school.

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u/4_fortytwo_2 5d ago

Yea fbi or police or whatever not following every single report is super sketchy. /s

5

u/OWSpaceClown 6d ago

Convenient to what, though?

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u/Prestigious-Flower54 6d ago

I mean your asking for logic in a conspiracy theory lol but the idea was the government planned it and had one plane hit the Pentagon with minimal damage and no loss of life and one get shot down near the White House so the government could then say see it's not an inside job the Pentagon and White House were both targets.

1

u/shermanhill 6d ago

Apparently not for JD Vance

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u/xczechr 5d ago

It's quite a silly conspiracy. The plane was hijacked west of the Pentagon. It was then turned around and flown into the west side of the Pentagon.

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u/Res1362429 5d ago

What I never understood is why there is not more video footage of the plane flying over DC before it hit the Pentagon. All that has ever been released is that grainy security cam video from the parking lot where you can barely even make out a plane. This is the middle of Washington, DC. Wouldn't you think there would be traffic cameras, news cameras, other security cameras, tourists, etc. that would have captured a video of a plane careening over DC at low altitude?

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u/Robot_Embryo 6d ago

And that such a secure building would allow anything the size of a plane flying at low altitude to get so close to it.

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u/rock-island321 6d ago

That, and the two cores of the jet engines just vanishing.    Cores that will not melt in the temps found in the crash. It's a puzzler! 

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u/G-Bat 5d ago

Several chunks of the cores were found and identified.

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u/TimeTravelingTiddy 6d ago

It would have done more damage but they were never taking more than 1 side with 1 plane

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u/Doesanybodylikestuff 6d ago

I’m anti-religion but I appreciate the chapel being there.

If anyone needs a place to cry at the workplace while on their period or after miscarriages or when I realize I’ll never retire, you’ll know where to find me!

3

u/sleazypornoname 6d ago

This. I was lucky to be given a private tour of the Pentagon 12 years ago. This guy was there that day. I was told all this stuff that day. I visited the chapel. Saw the memorial. Most of my friends say I am full of shit. Thanks for your words. 

PS - I got to see Saddam's gold plated AK47 in a glass case outside the Defence Sec office. That was wild. 

That whole place is a massive museum with offices behind doors and scary dudes with automatic weapons at every corner. 

Had to accompany my guide to the toilet when he wanted to take a piss. I said I would just wait outside. 

"If you don't stay within 3-5metres of me you will be on the ground with a knee on your back and two guns pointed at your head, if you don't take a piss with me". 

One of the best days of my life. LOL. 

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u/Ralph_Nacho 6d ago

I don't know about that. The pentagon is segmented and tiered with this exact sort of attack being taken into consideration. In what way could it have sustained more damage? Just by being more flammable?

1

u/BearMeatFiesta 6d ago

I doubt that they were thinking of an attack in 1941.

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u/Ralph_Nacho 5d ago

You should read about how it was designed then. Lol.

1

u/BearMeatFiesta 5d ago

I don’t know what you are trying to prove here, the section that was hit was undergoing structural renovations.

Also you are trying to claim that the pentagon was designed for an attack like this.

If you were designing a building you would probably put the most important things in the middle of the structure right? You would put the things you care less about on the outside right? The highest ranking officials are in the outer ring. Which is the easiest ring and portion to hit.

2

u/Schemen123 6d ago

Still.. the pentagon is huge..it might have done more damage but design it self limits how damage spreads 

2

u/MotherSupermarket532 6d ago

From what I understand the Pentagon also has some features that were designed to protect against bombs (big cement columns) that ended up being pretty effective in limiting the damage from the plane.  The Pentagon is big in area but relatively short which also helped limit casualties as people were not trapped in the same way.

5

u/BearMeatFiesta 6d ago

Also people forget the scale of the pentagon. The inner courtyard is 5 acres! (I would get to work early and grab coffee and sit in the courtyard, they would have civilian tours and sometimes I’d follow them for a bit if I had time. This was one thing I learned from those tours!)

Beyond that the scale of everything else was astonishing, it is still the 2nd largest office building in the world.

2

u/downward1526 5d ago

I just toured the Pentagon two weeks ago, it was a better tour than the Capitol or White House tours I’ve been on, and the courtyard is gorgeous! 

2

u/BearMeatFiesta 5d ago

It’s good you’ve seen it after the facelift and renovations. I sometimes had to walk through sections that were original and it was very dated. Kind of wish they had kept one area original just to see the stark contrast.

1

u/Hot_Republic2543 6d ago

This is true, they not only hit the only (at that time) reinforced wedge of the Pentagon, they were on the opposite side from the river entrance where all the top leadership offices are. Had they hit the river side it would have been worse damage and potentially more consequential in terms of who was killed.

1

u/No_Cash_8556 6d ago

When I was in 8th grade we visited the Pentagon. I ate some rubble that was salvaged from the Pentagon debris that is being used as landscaping gravel. I ate part of the Pentagon.

1

u/Curious-Discussion27 5d ago

Basically this. My dad’s department got moved to Crystal City while it was renovated. Otherwise he would have been right there.

1

u/BradFromTinder 5d ago

Genuinely asking, what kind of renovations could have been done to lessen the damage of a fucking airplane going hundreds of miles an hour hitting it??

1

u/BearMeatFiesta 5d ago

It was a building created in the 40’s, I don’t know how to say this but there have been some technical innovations in building safety and integrity in 70 years.

1

u/BearMeatFiesta 5d ago

So I asked my pops, there were walls that pulled down and repoured with steel reinforced walls, windows that were reinforced.

The pentagon was created in a very short time during a war period with constrained materials. Was designed originally as a warehouse house.

1

u/Rich-Marketing-2319 5d ago

You mean the missle

2

u/BearMeatFiesta 5d ago

Don’t you think a missile would do more damage?

Also my pops was walking into the building at the time and saw the plane go overhead.

1

u/Rich-Marketing-2319 5d ago

Lol well he's lying because the "plane" didn't go over the pentagon. And a 747 would do far more damage

1

u/BearMeatFiesta 5d ago

I never said that it went over the pentagon. Believe me or don’t I don’t give a shit.

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u/anthrohands 5d ago

That’s where they bring the pentagon tours. The tour is actually very much focused on 9/11.

1

u/Nulono 5d ago

If the plane had hit a section of the pentagon it would have done way more damage.

Is there a word missing from this sentence? It did hit a section of the Pentagon, didn't it?

1

u/BearMeatFiesta 5d ago

The word missing is “different”

1

u/Domination_Station_ 6d ago

I don’t understand how a renovation mitigates damage. Please explain.

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u/RegalArt1 6d ago

The walls were being reinforced. The pentagon had been built during the 1940s and was a good 60 years old by that point

1

u/Domination_Station_ 6d ago

Ah- totally makes sense. Thanks.

-8

u/agitator775 6d ago edited 5d ago

The part of the Pentagon that was hit is where they kept all the financial records. Just 1 day after Donald Rumsfeld announced that the pentagon couldn't account for 2 trillion dollars. But I'm sure that was just a coincidence. I'm sure another coincidence was the fact that none of the 68 cameras on the Pentagon were working that day.

5

u/FoldAdventurous2022 6d ago

Why would Rumsfeld announce that? Would he not be privy to the conspiracy if there was one?

1

u/agitator775 5d ago

You tell me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU4GdHLUHwU

1

u/FoldAdventurous2022 4d ago

So again, why would he announce that publicly at a press conference?

1

u/agitator775 4d ago

How the fuck should I know? Maybe because he didn't get the memo from Dick Cheney?

1

u/FoldAdventurous2022 4d ago

So you're expecting me to believe they orchestrated this insane attack to destroy records at the pentagon, but Donald Rumsfeld announced a devastating piece of information related to those records, which would cast huge suspicion on him and the rest of the Bush administration, literally the day before? Sounds incredibly dumb.

Also, one major thing these 9/11 conspiracy theories always lack: any sense of agency on the part of people in the Muslim world who had spent decades being oppressed and murderd by US-backed dictators or direct US intervention. Couldn't possibly be the case that a group of them, with well-documented organization and funding (some of it ironically from the US itself back when they were 'righteous mujahideen' fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan) simply decided to hit back at their tormenters. It's not like dozens of Islamist organizations across the Islamic world have spent decades making it very clear that they see the US as a violent, godless imperial power that has violated Muslim lands, contributed to the deaths of millions, and was behind all of the coups and dictatorships that they were suffering from for years before 9/11. Nope, that whole segment of humanity and their legitimate grievances are totally irrelevant, must have been the US government missile-striking its own military command center to destroy some embarassing documents and then making up a fake hijack/murder incident involving four planes in three different locations as an incredibly convoluted cover story.

1

u/agitator775 4d ago

Let me ask you this. Have you ever seen a building collapse into it's own footprint WITHOUT a controlled demolition?

Or have you ever heard of Operation Northwoods? Look it up. It was a CIA plot to start a war with Cuba. They did not go through with it, but some people wanted to.

1

u/agitator775 4d ago

It's also interesting that the BBC reported building number 7 had collapsed before it actually happened. Also, it was amazing how they knew the names of all 19 hijackers within 45 minutes and how they found their passports in pristine condition in the rubble.

If you want to believe the governments version of 9/11 then go ahead. To me there are way too many unanswered questions.

1

u/agitator775 4d ago

Let's also remember that there is proof that Bush and the oil companies already had a plan in place to divide up the oil fields in Iraq 6 months before 9/11.

3

u/BearMeatFiesta 6d ago

Definitely not where “financial records” were kept.

Don’t know where you got “68 cameras” from as that is wrong as well.

0

u/agitator775 5d ago

Sure it is. You keep telling yourself that. It's really weird though that there is no footage of the "plane" that hit the Pentagon though huh?

1

u/BearMeatFiesta 5d ago

My dad was in the parking lot walking into work when the plane hit and saw it. If you are trying to claim Rumsfeld or some other military entity sent a “missile” or something to hit it then why was such a small amount of damage done? Also we aren’t talking about the 80’s they weren’t keeping “financial records” in paper format in the 2000’s.

Let’s both just stop here.

You’re obviously not going to listen to anything I say and you are just regurgitating stuff you read on the internet.

1

u/agitator775 5d ago edited 5d ago

Still didn't answer the question. There are cameras all over the Pentagon. How come none of those caught the plane striking the building? Where is that footage?

Also, the small amount of damage actually goes against your argument. The hole left in the building was too small for a jumbo jet airplane. There was no plane wreckage. And if you recall, the scene was soon literally, not just figuratively covered up so the public couldn't see the wreckage.

But hey, if you want to believe the government's version of 9\11 then who am I to stop you.

Perhaps you should look up "Operation Northwoods" on the internet.

1

u/BearMeatFiesta 5d ago

I think I’ll believe my dad before random people online.